SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 1, 2024 15:54:22 GMT -8
Well this should actually be interesting, JD vs Mr. Joy!! With the middle east at war and Hurricane Helene's ravage on the south east. candidate Walz is up against the walls! In fact as I type, Timmy Walz is entering the debate stage....
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 1, 2024 20:45:01 GMT -8
Major difference between Vance & Trump is that Vance doesn't take the bait of personal insults. He might make a quick comment about it, but he does a much better job of staying focused & zeroing in on the target. Walz tried to pick at him a few times, but Vance didn't allow it to distract him.
Ironically, not sure if that skill is useful in leadership. I know we want it to be, but not sure it applies in the real world. It seems like so many successful leaders in sports, business & politics have some odd personality flaw that doesn't get in the way of them succeeding.
The most important question is something I know I saw (heard), but haven't seen anyone else comment on it. When Walz was commenting on Finnish schools, he paused for a moment & a sound that was either a fart or a stomach gurgling could be heard. I replayed it 3 times to make sure, it was there & based on facial expressions, came out of Walz.
Last VP debate featured a fly, this one a fart.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 1, 2024 21:36:43 GMT -8
Major difference between Vance & Trump is that Vance doesn't take the bait of personal insults. Another major difference is that Vance, like most political candidates, speaks like an adult, while Trump expresses himself in a very immature manner. Before you jump in my shit, that's not a criticism, it's an observation of reality shared by many. Trump is the least articulate major party presidential candidate in recent memory. The obvious exception is Joe Biden, whose advancing senility has made him almost incomprehensible, but who was very articulate when he was much younger.
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billb
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Post by billb on Oct 1, 2024 23:37:30 GMT -8
The real estate business helped shape Trump MD. Being a politician is not top of his list. For me, I don't want a politician.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2024 5:58:21 GMT -8
This was a take, exactly how I saw last night, by Scott Jennings @cnn (Also written in LATimes of all places!) ~~~
I'll be on @cnn at 11:30 with some thoughts, but here are my notes from tonight's VP debate:
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As the candidates for Vice President took the stage in New York last night, the state of North Carolina was under water, Israel was under siege, the American supply chain was under threat of disruption and the American people were under the impression that there’s a leadership void in the White House. In other words, the conditions existed for Ohio Senator J.D. Vance to stick it to the incumbent party, represented by Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. And Vance delivered in spades. From the opening bell, Walz was nervous, overmatched, and out of his depth, especially when dealing with foreign policy matters like the ongoing attacks on Israel.
Gov. Walz simply wandered into the wrong bar. And as the night wore on it became evident that Kamala Harris made a lousy choice. Somewhere, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro – perhaps the most talented young communicator in the Democratic Party and the person that Harris should have chosen – must’ve been laughing his rear end off. On issue after issue, Vance delivered smooth, well-constructed arguments while Walz often answered haltingly, like an online video struggling to buffer on a slow Wi-Fi connection. There hasn’t been a vice-presidential candidate this out of his depth since Admiral James Stockdale delivered his famous “who am I and why am I here?” line in the 1992 campaign.
The late admiral aside, vice presidential debates don’t often leave a lasting impression. The only thing anyone can remember from the 2020 version was that a fly landed on Mike Pence’s head. And 2016? I’ve yet to meet anyone in my travels this year who remember that Tim Kaine was the Democratic nominee for vice president, let alone anything he said in a debate.
And before last night’s tilt I wasn’t expecting too much to change because of the 2024 episode of this show. I know Vance is good on TV, and I know Walz has virtually no idea what he’s doing at this level of politics. But I was shocked – shocked – at just how ill prepared Walz was for his one and only big-ticket task in this campaign.
There isn’t much Vance or anyone else can do to change perceptions of Donald Trump at this point. He’s run for president three times, serving one term that’s now viewed as a success by most Americans, according to CNN’s latest polling. He’s been impeached twice. Shot in the ear once, and nearly assassinated by a second gunman. He’s been indicted and convicted in New York City, basically, for hooking up with a porn star 18 years ago. And yet, Trump, by some measures, has never been more popular, mostly because Americans are remembering his term in office far more fondly than they are experiencing the Biden/Harris administration.
But Harris is a different story. She’s known, but people don’t know her as well as they know Trump. Opinions are still being formed about Harris, and whether she’s earned a promotion. And one of the most consequential political decisions a presidential candidate makes is choosing a running mate. The political media has run with the narrative, to date, that Trump made a terrible choice and Harris made an inspired pick.
After this debate, there’s no way they can keep up this charade. Walz isn’t appealing to any moderate Republicans. He’s not reassuring conservative white males that Harris isn’t a progressive-in-moderate’s clothing. He was barely functional over the 90-minute show, having perfected a look of sheer terror and complete bafflement all at the same time. Walz’s performance surely made everyone wonder how Harris came to choose him for the national ticket, and whether Harris herself possesses the executive decision-making capacity to serve as president. Walz’s two and half minute answer to why he lied about the nature and timing of his trips to China would’ve gotten the former teacher kicked out of any high school debate club in Minnesota.
And for Vance, who has been pilloried for past comments made on old podcasts and before he became a believer in Trump’s leadership style, it was a night of redemption and validation. The 39-year-old Ohioan, a scant two years into his first term in the U.S. Senate, showed the Republican Party how to communicate calmly and with compassion. He admitted some shortcomings when he needed to, and pressed attacks when it made sense. Vance even won the exchange with Walz on abortion in a masterful pivot, admitting how his views have changed on the topic because of a referendum in his own home state. Walz, for his part, sidestepped questions about any restrictions that he and Harris would support.
After last night, it is hard to imagine Gov. Walz sitting in the Situation Room as some national or international emergency unfolds. But Vance? He passed the test and proved that he belongs at this level of American politics.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2024 6:46:40 GMT -8
And here is one take from Dan Lonsberry that I think MDDad will like & appreciate. LAST NIGHT, AMERICA WON {<READ HERE}
America won.
The vice presidential debate.
America won.
J.D. Vance and Tim Walz reminded us that we could be passionate and polite, that our disagreements could be civil, that our politicians could be intelligent, that our politics could be patriotic. It was a reminder of who we are and how we move forward.
Both men showed that they are more intelligent and decent than their running mates, and that partisan and philosophical disagreement can be congenial and cordial. It was almost a relief, like the burden of contention was temporarily lifted from the nation’s shoulders, like the grownups were back in charge.
And J.D. Vance was brilliant.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2024 8:38:22 GMT -8
And here is one take from Dan Lonsberry that I think MDDad will like & appreciate. LAST NIGHT, AMERICA WON {<READ HERE}
America won.
The vice presidential debate.
America won.
J.D. Vance and Tim Walz reminded us that we could be passionate and polite, that our disagreements could be civil, that our politicians could be intelligent, that our politics could be patriotic. It was a reminder of who we are and how we move forward.
Both men showed that they are more intelligent and decent than their running mates, and that partisan and philosophical disagreement can be congenial and cordial. It was almost a relief, like the burden of contention was temporarily lifted from the nation’s shoulders, like the grownups were back in charge.
And J.D. Vance was brilliant. I agree, and appreciate the sentiment. We'd be better served as American citizens if the tickets of both parties were turned upside down. I think Walz is a bit of a buffoon, but I'd happily have a beer with him. And I'd love to have two or three (or four) with Vance. I'd have a beer with Trump if offered a large sum of money or if I had a gun to my head. And I wouldn't even piss on Kamala Harris if she were on fire.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2024 8:40:26 GMT -8
The real estate business helped shape Trump MD. Being a politician is not top of his list. For me, I don't want a politician. I don't want a politician either. But I'd really appreciate a capable administrator who can speak in complete sentences, doesn't continually brag about himself, and doesn't resort to childish insults and name-calling for every opponent.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 2, 2024 12:58:05 GMT -8
The real estate business helped shape Trump MD. Being a politician is not top of his list. For me, I don't want a politician. I don't want a politician either. But I'd really appreciate a capable administrator who can speak in complete sentences, doesn't continually brag about himself, and doesn't resort to childish insults and name-calling for every opponent. I'm assuming those 3 criticisms are examples of what you early claimed to be an "immature manner". Speaking & writing are different when it comes to the ability to communicate, especially when it is one-on-one or in a small group where non-verbal communication plays a major role. Not being grammatically correct or using shortcuts to keep peoples attention can allow concepts to make sense to the receiving party. Calling it immature sounds very elitist. It would be nice if people didn't brag about themselves. Boxing was ruined by that loudmouth Muhammad Ali going on & on about how he was the greatest of all time. While we all like to believe ourselves to be above childish insults & name-calling, it seems we all do it (note your comment about not pissing on a burning Harris above). Since Trump has endured nearly a decade of being called Hitler, fascist, racist, sexist and had numerous hoaxes spread about him by the media & the left (even after having been debunked), I understand why he reacts the way he does. I know that you, me & Mother Theresa are all above responding in that manner, it is a shame that Trump can't be more like us.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2024 13:12:09 GMT -8
I don't want a politician either. But I'd really appreciate a capable administrator who can speak in complete sentences, doesn't continually brag about himself, and doesn't resort to childish insults and name-calling for every opponent.
I understand why he reacts the way he does. I know that you, me & Mother Theresa are all above responding in that manner, it is a shame that Trump can't be more like us. ^..... RSM, I have made the same point on many occasion, if you are gonna bag on the name caller, then you shouldn't be one your'e or oneself.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2024 13:20:03 GMT -8
It would be nice if people didn't brag about themselves. Boxing was ruined by that loudmouth Muhammad Ali going on & on about how he was the greatest of all time. When Ali called himself the greatest of all time, (a) he was right, and (b) he wasn't running for President of the United States. When Trump brags about himself, he's wrong more often than he's right. You will notice than when I refused to piss on her, I called her Kamala Harris. Not cognitively-impaired lyin' Kamala Harris, like certain presidential candidates have begun doing. And I'd also wager their comments reach a much wider audience and have more impact than mine. To be accurate, Trump was bragging and name-calling years before he endured any of those indignities. I can't vouch for Mother Teresa, but you and I should be beatified as soon as we pass away. Trump, not so much (e.g. thou shalt not commit adultery).
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 2, 2024 18:52:24 GMT -8
I agree, and appreciate the sentiment. We'd be better served as American citizens if the tickets of both parties were turned upside down. I pretty much said the exact same thing to a friend yesterday.
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billb
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Post by billb on Oct 2, 2024 19:10:36 GMT -8
When you run your own business, you don't like taking sh!t from anyone, especially vendors. I see that in myself and Trump. Most people weren't responsible for making things work at an enterprise level. That is the problem with politicians, IMO. They don't care. It isn't their money. They kowtow to contributors and eat whatever they are serving.
JD is a good guy, but the longer a person is a politician, the more they lose sight of what is important: Making things work. I the case of Trump right now, he is focused on making this country work. Sure, we would like an eloquent leader, but I would give up some of that for someone that isn't going to take sh@t and just make the economy and our civilization work.
I don't think I have ever seen such an easy choice on the ballot.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 2, 2024 22:12:27 GMT -8
It would be nice if people didn't brag about themselves. Boxing was ruined by that loudmouth Muhammad Ali going on & on about how he was the greatest of all time. When Ali called himself the greatest of all time, (a) he was right, and (b) he wasn't running for President of the United States. When Trump brags about himself, he's wrong more often than he's right. It appears you were born & raised on Mount Kylos.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 3, 2024 1:24:10 GMT -8
I don't want a politician either. But I'd really appreciate a capable administrator who can speak in complete sentences, doesn't continually brag about himself, and doesn't resort to childish insults and name-calling for every opponent. . Boxing was ruined by that loudmouth Muhammad Ali going on & on about how he was the greatest of all time. Agree 100%. and it spread from there to almost all sports. Great athletes always used to let their play speak for itself.
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