davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 19, 2019 9:07:04 GMT -8
i don’t know about you, but I have grown tired of seeing and hearing the same baseless tag lines thrown out by those supporting abortion in defense of that heinous procedure. maybe if we dredge them out here and even provide a logical response, we can ably respond the next time... NOT that we will ever “win” the argument, but we can at least share our reasoned responses: - “My body, my choice.” This is accurate and I basically support it, right up to the point of conception. After that point, it is not just your body. If it was just your body, it would not have two brains, four lungs, two hearts, etc...
- “OK, tell me where to send the child so you can support it” (many variations of this): Whether I am able or willing to financially support the child has nothing to do with whether or not the child should be killed. How about if the mother and father decide if they want and can afford a child BEFORE they have sex?
That should get us started... your turn.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 19, 2019 9:25:33 GMT -8
"A woman should be able to do whatever she wants with her body." If that's true, and it extends to terminating a human life, than everyone else should have the same right and executions, euthanasia and all homicides should be legalized.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 19, 2019 9:32:49 GMT -8
Having seen it myself, I'm convinced that if every pregnant woman could see the stomach-turning remains of an aborted 6- or 8-week-old fetus, very, very few of them who would otherwise choose that option would still do so.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on May 19, 2019 12:43:49 GMT -8
Now THAT should be a part of middle school sex education.
Here's how babies develop...
Here's what causes babies to happen in the first place...
Here's how you prevent that from happening...
Here's what will likely happen to you, your child, and their fathers if you have a child(ren) out of wedlock...
And here's what happens to the baby as a result of an abortion...
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 19, 2019 13:10:45 GMT -8
Instead, the California legislature is debating bills that would teach gender identity and gender confusion beginning in kindergarten.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on May 19, 2019 13:18:57 GMT -8
Instead, the California legislature is debating bills that would teach gender identity and gender confusion beginning in kindergarten. Easy lesson, should be no confusion.....
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 19, 2019 13:35:43 GMT -8
It seems pretty simple to me as well. If a person is born with X and Y chromosomes and functioning testicles, he is a man. If he identifies as a woman, he has a mental illness. If he has the money and means to indulge that fantasy with wigs, makeup, women's clothing, breast augmentation, hormone therapy, the removal of his penis, and the construction of an artificial vagina, he has the right to do so. But he is no more a woman than any other man. And he has no right to expect that the rest of society should cater to his delusion.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on May 19, 2019 14:16:19 GMT -8
"It's not an actual human, it's just tissue dependent on the mother and wouldn't survive on its own."
Which is also true of most people recovering in a neurology ICU. They're dependent on respirators and the nursing staff and wouldn't survive on their own. But if we arbitrarily withdraw that support we don't call it a "choice", we call it a "homicide.".....................Luca
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 19, 2019 21:11:43 GMT -8
An unborn baby is emphatically NOT just a "part of a woman's body." It is not a body part or an appendage, or mere tissue. Both common sense and science clearly tell us that the unborn child (fetus) is a separate human organism with it's own unique DNA. He or she happens to be dependent on his or her mother (as are all newborns), but deliberately ending this life is not merely an exercise in "controlling a woman's body", it is the killing a pre-born human.
And let us never forget, where are the fathers of these children who are subject to dismemberment and worse? They have solemn duties and legal responsibilities brought about by their paternity. As I tell my students: if you're not ready to be a father, don't be doing the thing that makes you a father!
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 20, 2019 8:04:44 GMT -8
”Abortion is a Constitutional right.” (and all its variations)
I’d like to see where in the Constitution Abortion is enumerated as a right.
The only piece I think comes even close is the 14th amendment:
But no abortion and, in fact, perfecting an abortion does, in reality, deprive that unborn child of life (and, presumably, linerty) without due process, so if anything pro-abortionists are the ones out of step with the Constitution.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 20, 2019 8:20:34 GMT -8
As is so often the case, these kinds of discussions devolve down to differences of opinion over a word's definition. If the left is adamant in their belief that fetuses are not "persons", then it stands to reason that for them the 14th Amendment does not apply.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on May 20, 2019 12:18:17 GMT -8
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
Note that it says "all persons born.....", meaning that if you are not born then those "privileges" do not necessarily apply to you. But then it goes on to say "nor shall the state deprive any person [not "citizen"] of life............. without due process of law".
It is also left deliberately unclear exactly what those "privileges" are for a citizen of the United States
You can't blame the authors of the Constitution and subsequent amendments. They could have had no idea that this kind of issue would come up. That's why it's debated so vigorously, I suppose.
I think it was Wittgenstein who said something to the effect that "The most heated controversies are those regarding which there is no convincing evidence either way."
(I don't have my list of favorite quotes with me)
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Bick
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Post by Bick on May 20, 2019 13:14:49 GMT -8
And this is why I think we're picking the wrong battle trying to get past the viability out of the womb threshold to legally prevail with heartbeat abortion laws.
We're trying to legislate morality, instead of educating with the intent of equipping for better, more informed choices.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 20, 2019 15:44:55 GMT -8
Tag Line - "If you don't like abortion, then you don't have to get one"
This is shown for its idiocy when you replace the object, such as: "If you don't like Slavery, you don't have to own any slaves"; "If you don't like theft, you don't need to steal"; "If you don't like feces on the sidewalk, you don't have to crap there".
You get the point...
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 20, 2019 16:36:31 GMT -8
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