SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 28, 2019 6:56:13 GMT -8
I think you've got something there, Bick. Both J.T. Daniels and Bryce Young would have been much better prepared for college football if they had attended Estancia or Bolsa Grande and played against more equal competition. To make a point, MDDad had to use Estancia and Bolsa Grande as examples. Now thats thinking above our heads here..... @bick, here is what happens however when you are stuck at a small enrollment public school with lesser talent all around, half the hype and play in the PCL and not the Trinity..... Because the "Good Lord" can't possibly prepare you for this any other way.....
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 28, 2019 7:46:24 GMT -8
About the only time the players on Bosco or Mater Dei get to compete against a realistic opposition is when they play each other. That's completely untrue, and it shows a lack of understanding of how players are developed. The value of being part of a high-talent program is not the two hours on a Friday night playing opponents that may be overmatched, it's the 15+ hours a week spent practicing against equally high-talent teammates, and receiving coaching from a high-talent coaching staff. That's what prepares kids to compete at the next level, much more than playing Villa Park and J.W. North.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 28, 2019 8:39:51 GMT -8
I think you've got something there, Bick. Both J.T. Daniels and Bryce Young would have been much better prepared for college football if they had attended Estancia or Bolsa Grande and played against more equal competition. Didn't seem to impact Rishard Matthews (Saddleback???!!), or Eddie Pleasant (Kennedy), all that much. Both clearly had targets on their backs, yet lifted their HS teams to high points, and wound up drawing NFL paychecks for 5+ years. In Mathews' case, his year there was the only time Saddleback won a playoff game in the 5 years prior, or 13 years since. You might be somewhat shocked if you knew Tom Brady's, Aaron Rodgers' & Brett Favre's record in high school. Intuitively, I believe you are actually better prepared for the next levels in sports, or life for that matter, when you have to struggle. When you're surrounded by such a high level of talent, I think it gives you a false sense of how good you might actually be, as mistakes aren't always as glaring when your surrounding talent masks them. For a QB in particular, if your OL is so stout you're rarely touched, or your WR's regularly a head taller and have less than 5+ yds of separation from their DB's, and you've got a very good RB to boot, what part of your game gets exposed or even challenged? JT Daniels throws for over 12,000 yds and 152 TD's in THREE seasons! 15-0, national champs, Gatorade POY as a junior. Clearly destined for greatness, right? So much so, that high school was no longer even a challenge. 2,600 / 14 / 10 with a 5-7 record his frosh year at SC paints a different picture. Prior year, Tate Martell led Bishop Gorman in a similar fashion...15-0 Gatorade POY, 41 passing TD's, 21 rushing TD's landed him a ticket to THE Ohio St University. It would be a mild understatement to say his college career has fallen short of expectations being so highly regarded out of HS. Intent isn't to cast aspersions against either guy's football ability, just arguing that being surrounded by what's essentially an all-star team, isn't the best thing for either the individual player's development OR a coaching staff.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 28, 2019 8:47:47 GMT -8
points well made Bick. i believe the real difference in the two are are speed or speed of the game. playing for an uber school will expose you to that a bit more across the board, player by player, position by position. on the other side there is a false sense of being, maybe security. the example of QB for one, having a near NFL line is nice, enables one to think its all so easy peavey. these uber teams now playing outside the normal schedule realm is probably a good thing for them. and yes now that we have elevated the opponent to VP and JWN that still makes little sense any longer. the uber teams should no longer consider playing those schools.. i feel the same way about college. and its not as one said, it because those underwhelming teams want to lay the best.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 28, 2019 12:50:03 GMT -8
About the only time the players on Bosco or Mater Dei get to compete against a realistic opposition is when they play each other. That's completely untrue, and it shows a lack of understanding of how players are developed. The value of being part of a high-talent program is not the two hours on a Friday night playing opponents that may be overmatched, it's the 15+ hours a week spent practicing against equally high-talent teammates, and receiving coaching from a high-talent coaching staff. That's what prepares kids to compete at the next level, much more than playing Villa Park and J.W. North. #1 Mater Dei DID play Villa Park, and #2 JW North is now 8-1 (unbeaten except for the Servite game), and will be one of the top seeds in their playoff division. Just sayin'.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 28, 2019 13:45:00 GMT -8
#1 Mater Dei DID play Villa Park, and #2 JW North is now 8-1 (unbeaten except for the Servite game), and will be one of the top seeds in their playoff division. #1 That's my point. I think the kids got a lot more "development" practicing for 15 hours that week than they did playing the game. Except that they did probably want to beat up on Zion and Zeus Alefosio a little bit. #2 Come now, Professor, you know better than that. When evaluating a Servite opponent, what does an 8-1 record and high ranking really mean when North is playing in Div. 10 with Orange and Segerstrom?
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 28, 2019 13:49:25 GMT -8
#2 JW North is now 8-1 (unbeaten except for the Servite game), and will be one of the top seeds in their playoff division. #2 Come now, Professor, you know better than that. When evaluating a Servite opponent, what does an 8-1 record and high ranking really mean when North is playing in Div. 10 with Orange and Segerstrom? At least CIF SS teams are still willing to play us.
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Post by kupprunneth on Oct 28, 2019 14:41:37 GMT -8
About the only time the players on Bosco or Mater Dei get to compete against a realistic opposition is when they play each other. That's completely untrue, and it shows a lack of understanding of how players are developed. The value of being part of a high-talent program is not the two hours on a Friday night playing opponents that may be overmatched, it's the 15+ hours a week spent practicing against equally high-talent teammates, and receiving coaching from a high-talent coaching staff. That's what prepares kids to compete at the next level, much more than playing Villa Park and J.W. North. Completely true statement. They practice against the best every week and get the best coaching. You won't find a better complete coaching "staff" anywhere else but at MD and Bosco.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 28, 2019 15:45:28 GMT -8
Seems odd that with all they've got going for them by playing and practicing together as an all-star team, there would be more than 1 active NFL player each at MD and Bosco - both backup QB's. Active NFL players by HS (CA)
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 28, 2019 15:49:25 GMT -8
#2 Come now, Professor, you know better than that. When evaluating a Servite opponent, what does an 8-1 record and high ranking really mean when North is playing in Div. 10 with Orange and Segerstrom? At least CIF SS teams are still willing to play us. not for long at the direction your moving!
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 28, 2019 22:03:32 GMT -8
About the only time the players on Bosco or Mater Dei get to compete against a realistic opposition is when they play each other. That's completely untrue, and it shows a lack of understanding of how players are developed. The value of being part of a high-talent program is not the two hours on a Friday night playing opponents that may be overmatched, it's the 15+ hours a week spent practicing against equally high-talent teammates, and receiving coaching from a high-talent coaching staff. That's what prepares kids to compete at the next level, much more than playing Villa Park and J.W. North. And this is where I think these schools have gone astray from their original mission. Their new mission is to develop college football players and be nationally "relevant." Come here (as a frosh or a transfer) and you'll get to compete with the other genetic outliers who you'll be seeing on Saturdays. The best only deserve to compete each day against the best. These realities become a kind of cumulative force, assuring that the pipeline of studs to such a "destination school" remains steady. No one who has tasted this kind of success is going to voluntarily climb back down the ladder to normalcy. It's too intoxicating. Re-building is for other schools; the best simply re-load. We'll see this when next year's QBs are revealed in January. * As a side note, I think all our Catholic high schools are susceptible to a kind of "savior complex" by which we reason that the high-talent athlete--no matter how mismatched he is for the culture of the school--is only benefiting by being at our school; that, in terms of academics and school environment, he is, objectively, in a better situation at our Catholic school than he would be at his local public high school. While this is almost certainly true, it ignores the core mission and, taken to its logical conclusion, will lead to the school simply becoming a football factory. Eventually, enough of these athletes will end up creating a football subculture all its own, detached from the wider student body and subject to its own rules and patterns of existence. I suspect this is the case at Bosco and Mater Dei, as I saw it even to a small degree at Servite in the 2009-20011 heyday.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 28, 2019 22:18:16 GMT -8
That's completely untrue, and it shows a lack of understanding of how players are developed. The value of being part of a high-talent program is not the two hours on a Friday night playing opponents that may be overmatched, it's the 15+ hours a week spent practicing against equally high-talent teammates, and receiving coaching from a high-talent coaching staff. That's what prepares kids to compete at the next level, much more than playing Villa Park and J.W. North. Completely true statement. They practice against the best every week and get the best coaching. You won't find a better complete coaching "staff" anywhere else but at MD and Bosco. Highly debatable, since these staffs never achieved this kind of success before they recruited/attracted a quantity and level of talent that we've never seen before in HSFB. And Jason Negro's record in games against teams with somewhat equitable talent is not very good. How can we really tell how good these coaches are when they start every hand with pocket Aces? Give any staff 35 or 40 D-1 athletes on their roster and they'll look pretty good, too. And having the most talented players will also attract the best coaches, no? These are good staffs to be sure, but let's not pretend they've found some secret sauce to simply "coach up" traditional HSFB kids to national powerhouse status. Advertising the "best coaching staff" is just another example of the professional mentality that has taken over and, at the same time, perpetuates itself by attracting the best talent--which in turn assures that the best coaches will want to join the staff, on so on and so on......
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 5, 2019 6:50:01 GMT -8
Two towns, one team?
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 5, 2019 7:10:17 GMT -8
Who is this kid and is he originally from San Clemente?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 5, 2019 7:29:44 GMT -8
Maybe he knows Malachi is coming...?
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