Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 3, 2019 13:56:21 GMT -8
Mass shootings always make the news along with blaming 2A, and calls for more restrictive gun laws.
Short of abolishing 2A coupled with gun confiscation, I don't believe any gun control law would be sufficient enough to put a big dent in the carnage caused by these lunatics.
I think the first order of business would be to harden the targets. In Gilroy, that target WAS hardened (entry point metal detectors and armed police) , and the casualties were limited relative to today's Wal Mart shooting.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Aug 3, 2019 15:09:38 GMT -8
Easier to obtain CCW (concealed carry) permits.
Better vetting of purchase applications, including availability of mental patient records.
And a really weird one: Mandatory military service for all male and female upon HS graduation.
Widely available small arms training.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Aug 3, 2019 15:38:08 GMT -8
I'm afraid there may not be a solution, primarily because there are over 300 million firearms already in American hands.
Imagine if all these mass murders were carried out with automobiles instead of guns. How ludicrous would it sound to propose that everyone who wants to buy a car has to pass a background check, or cars above a certain horsepower be made illegal, or cars could only have a gas tank below a certain gallon volume, or the way to prevent all the car murders is to ensure everyone has a car? When you have 300 million of any item in circulation, it's virtually impossible to ensure that none of them will ever be used in a harmful way.
And I certainly wouldn't want to live in a society where everyone is packing. Two many minor disagreements would end in carnage, and I don't want to be caught in the crossfire.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 3, 2019 18:33:08 GMT -8
Unfortunately, sitting this one out with no viable solution will ultimately lead to abolishing 2A, primarily BECAUSE none of those things you mentioned has a snowball's chance of making a meaningful impact.
The handwringers are out in force with this one because he's allegedly a trump supporter.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Aug 3, 2019 19:33:34 GMT -8
How, in the world, was there not ONE person among the estimated 1000 shoppers, IN TEXAS, with a gun?
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Post by ProfessorFate on Aug 3, 2019 19:39:13 GMT -8
Unfortunately, sitting this one out with no viable solution will ultimately lead to abolishing 2A, primarily BECAUSE none of those things you mentioned has a snowball's chance of making a meaningful impact. The handwringers are out in force with this one because he's allegedly a trump supporter. So am I, but I'm not at the border shooting people. The guy is obviously sick in the head.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Aug 3, 2019 21:31:00 GMT -8
I suspect almost everyone who becomes a mass killer is sick in the head. That's the root cause that needs to be addressed, and arming everyone is not the way to address it.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 3, 2019 22:14:47 GMT -8
That mental illness angle is just plain BS. It's one of those things that looks good on paper, and sounds so benevolent, but won't do a damn bit of good to prevent these things from happening.
Harden the targets, and do it now.
Too late. Another mass killing in Dayton.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Aug 4, 2019 7:06:53 GMT -8
Harden the targets, and do it now. I'm sorry, Bick, but "hardening" every potential target in the country sounds as unrealistic as AOC's plan to retrofit every building in America. It can't be done. With 300 million firearms in circulation and maybe a million or two angry, off-balance dudes ready to go postal, there's not enough money or Viagra in the world to harden all the targets that need to be hardened.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 4, 2019 7:54:51 GMT -8
Not so fast MDD. First, we're not talking about every building in terms of scope like AOC, and second, it's not nearly as expensive. Lastly, there is nothing more effective today.
Start with high occupancy venues (500+?) and work down.
Need a first step that's immediate.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Aug 4, 2019 8:26:58 GMT -8
I agree with MDDad in that there is no solution that will completely eradicate gun violence.
As long as we live in a fallen world, there will be those who will use any means available to do is harm. Best we can hope for is to make it more difficult for the crazies to get firearms... or any kind of weapon and, even then, if they are intent on causing bodily harm, they’ll find a way.
We SHOULD be addressing illegal firearms which means taking on criminals and especially gangs.
To be very transparent here, THEY each made a choice to join a gang, so I’m not particularly concerned if gang banners are thinning their own herds... but we cannot take guns away from the law abiding ... well ever, but at least not until we get them away from the criminals.
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Post by sixthman on Aug 4, 2019 8:49:24 GMT -8
The statistics on guns stopping gun violence are laughable. The only reason the United States hasn’t done anything about it is because of gun culture and gun advocates. I’ll leave it to you guys to figure out what to do. My solutions are unacceptable to too many Americans. Until then I will practice my lockdown procedure and training so when it does happen my students and I have a fighting chance at survival.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Aug 4, 2019 8:53:22 GMT -8
I'm afraid there may not be a solution, primarily because there are over 300 million firearms already in American hands... And I certainly wouldn't want to live in a society where everyone is packing. Two many minor disagreements would end in carnage, and I don't want to be caught in the crossfire... A couple points of disagreement. Saying there may not be a solution because there are X number of firearms in the country is in effect declaring that the problem is the number of firearms in the country. The number of firearms in the country is irrelevant if the solution has to do with mental health, enforcement of existing laws or any other potential theory. An analogy would be to the crime of rape. There are solutions to minimize and lessen the number of rapes, but those solutions have nothing to do with the number of penis's (peni?) in society. We don't say there is no solution to lowering the number of rapes because we have 180 million wieners in the country. A society where everyone is packing would never exist, because there is a certain percentage of people who just won't carry a gun. Making an observation off of the assumption that there would be a world where everyone is packing is akin to many economic theories that start from a point that will never occur. I believe the discussion should be a society where everyone is capable of & free to carry a firearm. In that society, i don't think gun ownership would increase much, you would just see more firearms in public every day. As far as minor disagreements ending in carnage, you are making the mistake in believing that once someone gets a firearm, they become a maniac, ready to kill anyone at the drop of a hat. The people who would shoot someone over a minor disagreement are the same folks who get into fistfights over minor disagreements. Further, notice the number of cops who get shot in cold blood compared to the number of unarmed citizens. People who want to commit murder typically don't target cops because it is known the cop has a gun and will shoot back. In a society where anyone could have a firearm on them, those willing to start something find the number of targets they are willing to go after lessen.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 4, 2019 8:57:09 GMT -8
I'm not suggesting it's possible to eradicate violence.
I'm suggesting we take the most efficient steps to make us safer, but like pretty much anything, the loudest voices will carry the day absent any viable alternative.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 4, 2019 9:02:30 GMT -8
The statistics on guns stopping gun violence are laughable. The only reason the United States hasn’t done anything about it is because of gun culture and gun advocates. I’ll leave it to you guys to figure out what to do. My solutions are unacceptable to too many Americans. Until then I will practice my lockdown procedure and training so when it does happen my students and I have a fighting chance at survival. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What are your solutions? I agree there are multiple, and I'll bet the guys on this forum would be able to come up with something viable and specific.
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