RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 29, 2019 13:09:56 GMT -8
"You lie!" That's a quote from?...Republican Rep. Joe Wilson to President Obama during a speech to Congress. It was also a correct call, that Obama was lying about insuring illegal aliens. I'll take honest & rude over lying & cordial anytime. And before you claim that Trump is both rude & a liar, you should look up the definition of the word. Being incorrect about something is not a lie, it is being wrong. Adding flowery details to a fact is not a lie, it is embellishing. Changing your mind about something is not lying. Lying is knowing the fact about something and then choosing to mislead others by saying something you know is incorrect. Too many on the left label anything they don't agree with or any mistakes as lies. Examples: " I am not a crook" - A lie, Nixon committed a crime with his involvement in Watergate and as a lawyer, knew what he did was illegal; " Read my lips, no new taxes" - Not a lie, but a broken promise. At the time of the statement, Bush had no plans or inclinations to raise taxes. His later choice to do so was him breaking his word. " I did not have sexual relations with that woman" - A lie. When Clinton said that, he knew he was not telling the truth. He just believed that no one could prove that he did. " There are WMD's in Iraq" - Not a lie, a mistake. The information Bush had was wrong and he was wrong when he relied upon it. It doesn't remove his responsibility, but he was not lying when he proclaimed it. As an aside, I didn't choose the two Bush quotes because I am fans of them, they were just examples that popped into my head. I actually didn't vote for either Bush in any of their 4 runs and had many others that I would have preferred to be president. |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Oct 29, 2019 14:23:21 GMT -8
This is something we should be fair about. The first time I can recall moderately disrespectful things said about a sitting US president was regarding Ronald Reagan.. But it was pretty benign by today’s standards.
The standards really begin to drop with the way Republicans treated Bill Clinton, who admittedly was somewhat Of a cad - and definitely a perjurer - but was still sitting president And was entitled to some degree of respect for that reason alone.
But it really hit the fan with the second George Bush and the ridiculous - and false - accusations made against him. It was continued against Barack Obama despite the fact that these two people were both honorable guys in my opinion.
But there has been nothing to compare to the off-the-wall treatment accorded to Donald Trump. True, he has engendered much it himself with his boorish behavior and comments, but we should always respect the office of the presidency. This concept seems to have been completely thrown out the window with the Trump presidency and I’m hoping it doesn’t set the trend for the future..................Luca
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Oct 29, 2019 16:34:21 GMT -8
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 3:33:08 GMT -8
No, that was just from memory.
I know...that was my main point, thanks for pointing out that trump is far worse than any Democrat has ever been.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 3:38:32 GMT -8
I think a large part of the problem is that this is the first time in our history that we've elected a person with so little respect for the office of the presidency to the office of the presidency.
Mr. trump demonstrated that lack of respect over and over during his campaign but you guys voted for him anyway...who's to blame for that?
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Oct 30, 2019 5:46:27 GMT -8
Hillary Clinton.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Oct 30, 2019 5:54:45 GMT -8
I don’t know that it would take a Delta Force type raid to get her, but agree with the sentiment... or is that not what you were suggesting? |
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 6:07:06 GMT -8
And here I thought you guys were all about personal responsibility. But don't miss a chance to blame something on Hillary.
Did she make you blind to trump's disqualifying factors, or did you vote for trump with full knowledge he was a lying, philandering, salesman?
How did Hillary convince you to put this lying, philandering, salesman in charge of our nuclear weapons?
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Oct 30, 2019 7:31:11 GMT -8
Your question was: "........ but you guys voted for him anyway...... who is to blame for that?"
The answer for a large number of people is: Hillary Clinton.
You had to make a choice between Clinton and Trump, not between Abraham Lincoln and Donald Trump. A great number of people saw Trump as the lesser evil. So they voted for him for lack of a better choice and that is largely why he was elected.
I say this as an observer because I could not bring myself to vote for either one of them...............................Luca
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Oct 30, 2019 7:51:13 GMT -8
Ditto that 👆
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Oct 30, 2019 7:54:50 GMT -8
This from the Seal that sent bin Laden to his 72 virgins. (Someone will have to explain how that's such a sight after prize, and then what happens to them after they're no longer virgins... seems a little misogynistic)
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
Member is Online
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Post by MDDad on Oct 30, 2019 8:13:32 GMT -8
Your question was: "........ but you guys voted for him anyway...... who is to blame for that?"
The answer for a large number of people is: Hillary Clinton. You had to make a choice between Clinton and Trump, not between Abraham Lincoln and Donald Trump. A great number of people saw Trump as the lesser evil. So they voted for him for lack of a better choice and that is largely why he was elected. I say this as an observer because I could not bring myself to vote for either one of them...............................Luca The choice came down to a despicable human being with an abysmal personal record running against a despicable human being with an abysmal personal record AND a very disturbing political legacy. Trump won because for many people he was the lesser of two evils by a score of 3 to 2. And I didn't vote for either one either. Sometimes when you have a choice between a bullshit sandwich and a horseshit sandwich it's best to just leave the table. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Oct 30, 2019 8:41:55 GMT -8
Your question was: "........ but you guys voted for him anyway...... who is to blame for that?"
The answer for a large number of people is: Hillary Clinton. You had to make a choice between Clinton and Trump, not between Abraham Lincoln and Donald Trump. A great number of people saw Trump as the lesser evil. So they voted for him for lack of a better choice and that is largely why he was elected. I say this as an observer because I could not bring myself to vote for either one of them...............................Luca I was one of them. |
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Bick
Administrator
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Post by Bick on Oct 30, 2019 8:52:00 GMT -8
Thankfully so. I'll take trump, warts and all, over whatever you want to call the options on the other side.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 8:54:58 GMT -8
So how is it that trump was the best candidate the Republicans could field?
Please don't give me a lot of crap about him "draining the swamp"...if ever there was creature that oozed out of the muck to sit in the Oval Office it was him.
Why couldn't the Republicans put forward a better candidate?
Is that Hillary's fault too?
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