Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 5, 2019 22:16:13 GMT -8
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 6, 2019 0:54:00 GMT -8
The problem with that is according to your logic people who are acquitted of crimes in a court of law are still criminals. That doesn't work for me. I don't see that as a problem because we are talking about a court of law versus the court of public opinion. A court of law doesn't make decisions as to whether or not people are criminals, rather they decide whether a person should be held responsible for specific crimes. That is why defendants are declared "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" as opposed to "innocent". The court of public opinion doesn't carry the power that a court of law does, so therefore the standard for conviction is lower. For example, OJ Simpson was found not guilty of killing his wife & Ron Goldman in a court of law, but the court of public opinion was decidedly that he was guilty & was a criminal. Even though the public viewed him this way, as an unconvicted criminal, he still had his life and his freedom. Being an unconvincted criminal in the eyes of the public doesn't affect ones life in nearly the same way that being convicted of a crime does.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 6, 2019 4:18:28 GMT -8
No, I was pretty clear in my post that I wasn't talking about Hillary at all, but you think she's a criminal even though she was never even charged with a crime...laugh at that.
BTW, I notice you're all up in arms over trump's "due process' rights but for Hillary you're content with granting her none. Very fair of you.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 6, 2019 4:24:16 GMT -8
Which is fine as long as you understand what kind of discussion you're having.
Actually courts of law do determine if the behavior they're examining rises to the level of criminality. If it does, the person is labelled a "criminal" and punished accordingly. If not...well, you get the idea.
Not guilty of what?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 6, 2019 6:50:58 GMT -8
And Ron & Nicole's killers are still out there somewhere.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 6, 2019 7:48:11 GMT -8
And Ron & Nicole's killers are still out there somewhere. WELL, “out there” is accurate now, but he DID spend time in prison for another crime.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 6, 2019 7:53:25 GMT -8
Whether they are or not isn't relevant to what we're discussing...but I suppose it makes you feel like you've made some kind of point.
You can decide arbitrarily that O.J. or some other person is a criminal even though they weren't convicted of the crime in question, but it makes it more difficult to have a meaningful discussion when you're not precise about your terms. Fact and opinion become blurred to the point where one wonders whether or not you can tell the difference.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 6, 2019 9:00:30 GMT -8
And Ron & Nicole's killers are still out there somewhere. WELL, “out there” is accurate now, but he DID spend time in prison for another crime. I guess justice isn't as blind as some of us would like to think.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 6, 2019 10:20:26 GMT -8
WELL, “out there” is accurate now, but he DID spend time in prison for another crime. I guess justice isn't as blind as some of us would like to think. It is more likely “justice” depends on things like the jurisdiction in which he was tried, and the notoriety by which his defense team was known.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 6, 2019 11:05:50 GMT -8
I guess justice isn't as blind as some of us would like to think. It is more likely “justice” depends on things like the jurisdiction in which he was tried, and the notoriety by which his defense team was known. Or the influence of a tarmac visit?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 6, 2019 11:44:26 GMT -8
O.J. Simpson was found "not guilty" for racial, social and political reasons, and because the prosecution committed some major screw-ups. What many people forget is that he was found guilty in the subsequent civil case for the same crime. There are thousands of criminals (i.e. people who have committed a crime) walking the streets who have never been charged, tried or convicted.
Hillary Clinton was never charged or tried, but the careless and unnecessary risks she imposed on national security with her silly personal server should see her reviled and excoriated for being terminally stupid and arrogant.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 6, 2019 12:42:40 GMT -8
Actually courts of law do determine if the behavior they're examining rises to the level of criminality. If it does, the person is labelled a "criminal" and punished accordingly. If not...well, you get the idea. Not guilty of what? I think both types of cases exist, the ones where a prosecutor makes the case that proven behavior is a crime and cases where a prosecutor makes the case that the defendant is the one who did said behavior. In the first, you are correct, the court is trying to determine if the defendants behavior is criminal. In the latter, it is accepted that the behavior was criminal, the court is trying to determine if the defendant was the one who did it. The not guilty follows the same lines. One can be not guilty of a crime because the actions he did do not reach the level of the law or statute to be considered criminal. In other scenarios,het can be found not guilty because the prosecutor was unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was the one who committed the crime in question. So there is the "Yes I did it, but it isn't a crime", which is different than the "It is a crime, but i'm not the one who did it". It comes down to a case by case basis. With Hillary, it is a given that a crime was committed and it is a given that Hillary was involved in that crime, intent not being relevant. The choice by the DOJ to not pursue a case against her makes her an untried & unconvicted criminal.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 6, 2019 12:46:37 GMT -8
It is more likely “justice” depends on things like the jurisdiction in which he was tried, and the notoriety by which his defense team was known. Or the influence of a tarmac visit? Yeah, or that...
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 6, 2019 12:48:51 GMT -8
So there is the "Yes I did it, but it isn't a crime", which is different than the "It is a crime, but i'm not the one who did it". I think there's a third: "Yes I did it, yes it's a crime, but you don't have the evidence or the balls to convict me." I'd suggest that be called the Hillary Evasion.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 6, 2019 13:29:09 GMT -8
Because Hillary admitted to committing a crime and dared them to prosecute her...right? No, of course she didn't do that. So what are you saying here?
I assume you all must think it's ok to call trump a criminal too right? After all, it's just that he hasn't been convicted yet is all...but he's still a crook.
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