MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 6, 2019 13:43:51 GMT -8
He's a billionaire commercial real estate developer, so of course he's a crook.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 6, 2019 14:33:47 GMT -8
He's a billionaire commercial real estate developer, so of course he's a crook. It looks like our guest gave up his argument and started disparaging the president. well done arguing him to (his) void. đź‘Ť |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 6, 2019 18:47:13 GMT -8
If you follow the lead of the MSM, it is okay to call Trump just about anything. You don't even need evidence, just call him a bigot, a rapist, Hitler, anything goes. I used Hillary as an example and used her involvement with the personal server as the smoking gun. What specific crime would you suggest Trump has committed and not been convicted of. Specific crime. No debate that a crime was committed and no debate that Trump did it. That keeps it apples to apples. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 6, 2019 21:54:57 GMT -8
BTW, I notice you're all up in arms over trump's "due process' rights but for Hillary you're content with granting her none. Very fair of you. Hillary was granted due process--as she should have been--in the investigation of her misuse of classified government documents through her private server. Every person has the right to due process. I have no idea why you would say that I'm "content with granting her none." You can search anything I've ever written here and you won't find anything even close to such a sentiment. No need to make things up. Elsewhere you've stated that Michael Flynn went to trial and was convicted. Not true. He plead guilty to a making a false statement (after Mueller's team threatened to target his son in connection with a flimsy FARA paperwork violation, which has since been dismissed), which is odd since the original interviewing agents didn't think he was lying (as both James Comey and Andrew McCabe testified to). Yet, when Mueller took over the case he was charged 11 months after the fact, and the prosecutors improperly withheld exculpatory evidence before his entered his plea. This is one of the major points of contention that his new counsel has recently made in arguing for the dismissal of the case. If that is not granted by the judge I wouldn't be surprised to see him attempt to withdraw his plea. thefederalist.com/2019/10/01/new-evidence-suggests-prosecutors-pressured-michael-flynn-to-lie/This thread has gotten way off topic. Perhaps it needs to be retired. |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 7, 2019 4:46:21 GMT -8
Tax evasion. Tax fraud. Campaign finance violations. To name but a few.
I suspect you'd object to anyone labeling trump a criminal because he hasn't even been charged with any of these crimes, but you do it all the time with Hillary simply because you disagree with her politically.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 7, 2019 4:53:10 GMT -8
Because you ignore the results of that "due process" and claim she's a criminal...when she was never even charged with a crime. Also, you don't understand what due process rights are if you think they come up a lot during investigations.
Yes, He went in front of the judge at his TRIAL and he pleaded "guilty", after which he was CONVICTED. He is currently awaiting sentencing for being found GUILTY at TRIAL. So my statement was completely true.
I'm sorry to inform you that after you've been convicted of a crime it's too late to withdraw your plea.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 7, 2019 9:06:19 GMT -8
This entire discussion on crime and criminals is becoming tiresome and predictable.
The definition of criminal is "a person who has committed a crime." The definition does not limit itself to whether or not the person has been charged, tried and convicted, so O.J. Simpson is a criminal.
The definition of crime is "an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by law".
Hillary Clinton, out of stupid arrogance, put national security at significant risk by insisting on having her own server in violation of the written policies of the cabinet department she was heading. Donald Trump asked for a favor in return for a favor. Anybody who doesn't think heads of state to that all the time is stupidly naive. I really don't care who thinks which of those "misjudgments" is a crime, as I'm sure it depends entirely on which of the two people they prefer. But I'm convinced that what Clinton did was infinitely more dangerous to the nation.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 7, 2019 10:20:29 GMT -8
BTW, I notice you're all up in arms over trump's "due process' rights but for Hillary you're content with granting her none. Very fair of you. ... This thread has gotten way off topic. Perhaps it needs to be retired. given our guest rarely has any intelligent rejoinder to... well, anything in this community, it is my considered opinion driving our discourse “...way off topic” is his intent so, at least, he can argue about something,.. even the irrelevant (which seems to be squarely in his wheelhouse). |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 7, 2019 11:53:12 GMT -8
Nice spin. But very dishonest. Donald asked for a personal favor in return for which he would release aid that was already authorized by Congress and already supposed to be released...he was withholding the aid in return for this "favor". It's not really a favor when you're being extorted is it.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 7, 2019 11:53:56 GMT -8
Still smarting from all those arguments you lost...so sad.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 7, 2019 19:58:43 GMT -8
Tax evasion. Tax fraud. Campaign finance violations. To name but a few. I suspect you'd object to anyone labeling trump a criminal because he hasn't even been charged with any of these crimes, but you do it all the time with Hillary simply because you disagree with her politically. Can you give me specifics on those three charges? When we used the Hillary example, we pointed out a specific action she did (and she admitted she did), the law that shows such action is a crime and how she was not charged nor convicted of the crime. You didn't do that. I have no problem labeling Trump an unconvicted criminal, however you are just throwing out random charges with no facts or specification. You don't need to give three, one will do. A specific action that all agree Trump did, the law that it violated and evidence that Trump was not charged or convicted for said crime. All it takes is one to make him an unconvicted criminal, can you come up with one? You got very upset when you said Dave was saying he knew what you believed, yet you just did the same thing to me when you claim to know why I call Hillary an unconvicted criminal. I'm trying to treat you fairly when we are discussing subjects, but that needs to go both ways. Don't do to me that which you get upset about when it is done to you. For the record, I dislike Hillary Clinton because she is a horrible human being. She actually has no political ideology, she will say or do anything if it gives her the chance at power. She is just despicable, maybe even deplorable. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 8, 2019 0:10:57 GMT -8
Yes, He went in front of the judge at his TRIAL and he pleaded "guilty", after which he was CONVICTED. He is currently awaiting sentencing for being found GUILTY at TRIAL. So my statement was completely true. I'm sorry to inform you that after you've been convicted of a crime it's too late to withdraw your plea. You're entitled to your opinion that Gen. Michael Flynn is a liar, a traitor, and an all-around bad guy who kicks his dog on the side. But if you're going to discuss his case, you're not entitled to make assertions that are simply false. This is the last time I will engage with you on this topic, since you are not even aware of the basic facts that I outlined above, nor of the law. Namely:
No sir, he did not go to TRIAL. That is the point of a plea--to avoid a trial. A TRIAL involves a case being tried before a judge or a jury. This never happened in his case. He was not found GUILTY at TRIAL. So your statement is not true. If you can find a reputable news source (not Wikipedia) that states that Michael Flynn was "convicted" in a "trial" I will personally refrain from all posting for 24 hours.
While it's not an easy thing to do, YES, you can withdraw a guilty plea before sentencing---and even after sentencing. If you can find an attorney who says otherwise, he should probably be disbarred. |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 8, 2019 4:12:14 GMT -8
You are correct, He admitted to the crime and was found guilty by the judge.
I wonder why Flynn wanted to avoid a trial...any speculation?
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