MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Nov 2, 2019 8:19:27 GMT -8
Guys, I've been thinking of posting something like this for about two weeks now, and for some reason I've held off. However, I think maybe the time has come to discuss it:
Why did we start this board? Ostensibly it was to provide a forum for rational discourse and impersonal discussion -- and it was exactly that for some months. But since Vilepagan decided to join this site, it has slowly devolved into a mirror image of TOB. Rather than a discussion of issues, it has become just another site for people who disagree with each other to insult, ridicule and belittle each other with name-calling that would be unacceptable in face-to-face conversation -- unless some of you attend parties where people routinely refer to each as ass-hats or shit-for-brains. Is that what we want?
As I've said privately, I disagree with almost everything VP believes and stands for. And he seems like a sad, lonely, pathetic little gay man who craves negative attention more than no attention at all. His post counts for October attest to that. But he is a fur ball in our living room that we should either sweep under the rug and ignore, or sweep out the door and be done with it. I agree that personal insults are often more fun than intellectual discourse, but that's not why I'm here. Are you? I'm slowly starting to feel myself looking around for a new place to land that doesn't have this kind of bullshit.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 8:29:17 GMT -8
No, it was way worse than TOB before I ever came here. It's just that now I respond to the insults hurled my way and you don't like that nearly as much as insulting me behind my back.
No I don't think it is...maybe you should have words with the child who can't seem to refrain from calling me an asshat in every post? Ya think?
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 2, 2019 11:49:12 GMT -8
In regards to how conversations on this board have changed since Vile Pagan decided to join, all we have to do is look at any posts not involving him. Those posts are just as civil as they have always been. No snark, no name calling. The X-factor is Vile Pagan, he is the ground zero for any incivility. MDDad, you are correct, if he was banned, the site would return to how it was before.
However, some of us joined this board to continue online conversations that were cut off when JQP chose to ban us from his site. We showed that we were not the problem, for we could argue and discuss without any real vitriol. Banning us did not solve the problem for JQP, he had other issues which became apparent after he banished those of who he was incorrectly blaming to be the problem. Banning posters did not solve the underlying problems for JQP. It might for us, but it didn't for him.
When Vile Pagan came here, he began day one with insults and snark in every post. I was probably the most vehement in responding back in the same manner, I figure if he is looking for a fight rather than conversation, then I'm more than willing to give it to him. So with that in mind, I have an offer for VilePagan:
* Go a week without any insult, snark, or condescending retort to any other poster here. If you do that and any other poster here insults you, I will voluntarily ban myself from this site;
* If you go a week and you don't insult anyone and no one insults you, then it shows it can be done by both sides. You can argue your points here and get opinions from different sides;
* If you can't go a week without initiating insults, then both you & I will be banned from this site. This way the others on this forum get the website they want & you know you are not being singled out, because both of us are gone.
Tell us what your intentions are VP. Is it to discuss or is it to cause problems? If it is the former, I'm more than happy to bury the hatchet and start anew. If it is the latter, I'm willing to step aside from here so as to remove you as well. Let us know.
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 11:50:16 GMT -8
Guys, I've been thinking of posting something like this for about two weeks now, and for some reason I've held off. However, I think maybe the time has come to discuss it: Why did we start this board? Ostensibly it was to provide a forum for rational discourse and impersonal discussion -- and it was exactly that for some months. But since Vilepagan decided to join this site, it has slowly devolved into a mirror image of TOB. Rather than a discussion of issues, it has become just another site for people who disagree with each other to insult, ridicule and belittle each other with name-calling that would be unacceptable in face-to-face conversation -- unless some of you attend parties where people routinely refer to each as ass-hats or shit-for-brains. Is that what we want? As I've said privately, I disagree with almost everything VP believes and stands for. And he seems like a sad, lonely, pathetic little gay man who craves negative attention more than no attention at all. His post counts for October attest to that. But he is a fur ball in our living room that we should either sweep under the rug and ignore, or sweep out the door and be done with it. I agree that personal insults are often more fun than intellectual discourse, but that's not why I'm here. Are you? I'm slowly starting to feel myself looking around for a new place to land that doesn't have this kind of bullshit. Seems like Luca figured out how engage objectively without injecting a dose of vitriol in the discussion. Maybe it's the MD after his name that taught him when or when not to add an injection. (see what I did there?) Seems pretty clear many here have enjoyed the food fight, and honestly I think there's that element in most open forums. It ain't for me, and it's easy enough to make this a closed, invite only forum. Until recently, it was all good natured stuff we were slinging at each other. If we're being objective, he was called out by pretty much everyone on this board, and he showed up to fight back. My thinking is that if we want the discussion to be civil, just discuss civilly. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Nov 2, 2019 17:08:54 GMT -8
(a) This site has never banned anybody.
(b) This site has never childishly changed anyone's name to an orange color.
(c) This site has never childishly prevented members from sending personal messages to each other.
(d) This site has never childishly redirected anyone's links to a pornographic website.
All these things make this forum better than the one we left. I hope it stays that way. But I have my doubts.
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 18:20:20 GMT -8
(a) This site has never banned anybody. (b) This site has never childishly changed anyone's name to an orange color. (c) This site has never childishly prevented members from sending personal messages to each other. (d) This site has never childishly redirected anyone's links to a pornographic website. All these things make this forum better than the one we left. I hope it stays that way. But I have my doubts. I'd say the likelihood of a-d happening are pretty remote. IF someone gets banned, it'll be a result of the group making such a call to vote that someone off the island. |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Nov 2, 2019 18:24:35 GMT -8
(a) This site has never banned anybody. (b) This site has never childishly changed anyone's name to an orange color. (c) This site has never childishly prevented members from sending personal messages to each other. (d) This site has never childishly redirected anyone's links to a pornographic website. All these things make this forum better than the one we left. I hope it stays that way. But I have my doubts. I'd say the likelihood of a-d happening are pretty remote. IF someone gets banned, it'll be a result of the group making such a call to vote that someone off the island. VP, are you listening? |
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 18:32:25 GMT -8
In regards to how conversations on this board have changed since Vile Pagan decided to join, all we have to do is look at any posts not involving him. Those posts are just as civil as they have always been. No snark, no name calling. The X-factor is Vile Pagan, he is the ground zero for any incivility. MDDad, you are correct, if he was banned, the site would return to how it was before. However, some of us joined this board to continue online conversations that were cut off when JQP chose to ban us from his site. We showed that we were not the problem, for we could argue and discuss without any real vitriol. Banning us did not solve the problem for JQP, he had other issues which became apparent after he banished those of who he was incorrectly blaming to be the problem. Banning posters did not solve the underlying problems for JQP. It might for us, but it didn't for him. When Vile Pagan came here, he began day one with insults and snark in every post. I was probably the most vehement in responding back in the same manner, I figure if he is looking for a fight rather than conversation, then I'm more than willing to give it to him. So with that in mind, I have an offer for VilePagan: * Go a week without any insult, snark, or condescending retort to any other poster here. If you do that and any other poster here insults you, I will voluntarily ban myself from this site; * If you go a week and you don't insult anyone and no one insults you, then it shows it can be done by both sides. You can argue your points here and get opinions from different sides; * If you can't go a week without initiating insults, then both you & I will be banned from this site. This way the others on this forum get the website they want & you know you are not being singled out, because both of us are gone. Tell us what your intentions are VP. Is it to discuss or is it to cause problems? If it is the former, I'm more than happy to bury the hatchet and start anew. If it is the latter, I'm willing to step aside from here so as to remove you as well. Let us know. BS. RSM - you've more than shown yourself to be a fit here with the rest of the bunch. You ain't going anywhere. |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 3:50:46 GMT -8
No doubt it would return to you guys insulting me at will.
You had plenty of vitriol...it just wasn't aimed at you.
When Vilepagan came here he found a great deal of insults and snark already...all posted by you guys without any help from me.
Unnecessary.
I'm not concerned about being "singled out". You all have the right to ban me if you wish and I perfectly understand that I have no right to "free speech' here or anywhere else on the internet.
My intention is to stand up for myself. I hope you can handle that.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 3:56:16 GMT -8
Indeed he has...and how many insults have I hurled his way?
Indeed. It's early in the life of your forum...you may someday decide you need some rules.
It sure as hell wasn't "good-natured stuff" you were slinging my way.
Thank you Bick, I appreciate your honesty, and your suggestion as well. Happy posting.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 3:57:26 GMT -8
Yes C...are you?
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 4:08:37 GMT -8
MDDad, all of your above complaints have to do with JQP. I'd just like to point out that if you're wanting a more 'civil" forum, perhaps you should stop bitching about me and think about taking Wabash's name out of your avatar. You know, practice what you preach and all that...
On your above points:
a. Yet here you are asking for me to be banned..and I completely understand your frustration.
b. No idea why JQP did that...you'd have to ask him.
c. I completely understand why JQP did that, and if it were your forum you'd have done the same.
d. That was just hilarious. Was your objection that it was NSFW? If so there's been stuff here posted that's just as bad.(nude pics)
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Nov 3, 2019 6:21:55 GMT -8
I don't really read your outlandish takes, but could you please put them all in one post and stop spreading out a simple sentence response to an entire 27" inches of my iMac desktop computer screen.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 7:32:54 GMT -8
Not when my posts are responses to four different people, no. Try putting me on ignore, see if that helps.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 7:38:50 GMT -8
Here's something that makes this place worse: "...he seems like a sad, lonely, pathetic little gay man who craves negative attention more than no attention at all..." This is from the opening post in this thread where you bemoan the name-calling and hostility on this forum, and blame it all on me...ironic, wouldn't you say? You could make this place better than the one you left, but you won't do it by getting rid of me. Carry on.  |
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