Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 10, 2019 20:53:51 GMT -8
This topic gets touched on quite a bit lately, so I thought I'd offer where I stand on it.
I'll preface with some very limited experience, along with some of the things growing up that shaped my perception of it all. My sister married, and had a child with a guy who later figured out he liked guys more than my sister. Being less than sensitive teenagers at the time, my brother and I were of the mindset that she must've driven him to it. Thinking back, it wasn't the actual attraction guys had to guys that was objectionable, it was any guy that acted like a sissy that would elicit remarks of being called a fag, wimp, queer or whatever happened to be the pejorative du jour of an effeminate guy. I think at my core, I feel the same way today.
Never much cared what people did behind closed doors. Didn't think it was my business, and still don't. Adults who have found happiness with each other should be allowed to pursue it. I don't believe it's a matter for a state or religion to decide whether or not it's "OK". At the same time, I don't think anyone should be compelled to interact with those who made that choice, nor do I feel those less than 5% who have found their happiness with the same sex, are entitled to some special consideration because they have.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 11, 2019 8:23:47 GMT -8
I have many friends and family members (depending on how one defines “many”) who claim to be homosexual.
So I don’t care that certain of those in that population believe I as a Christian must hate them. I know me, they do not and if it blows smoke up their butt to believe (or, not believing, just repeat) that I hate them, it’s nothing to me.
My understanding of Scripture is, homosexual behavior (meaning same sex sexual activity, NOT same sex attraction) is sin, but so is a lot of other human behavior: Basically all behavior that separates us from God and to which we make God subordinate, is sin, giving ones life to Christ doesn’t mean we magically stop sinning. It DOES mean, we start allowing the Holy Spirit to bring us more in sync with the kind of life Christ showed us... IOW, a sinless life, recognizing we will never achieve sinlessness this side of the grave. The effort is the point.
So I’m with you, Bick. Do what you want, but do so with eyes open and quit expecting others to absolve you of the consequences of your actions.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 11, 2019 8:40:49 GMT -8
I notice you didn't say you had many friends and family members who "are" homosexual...do you dispute their claims?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 11, 2019 9:07:59 GMT -8
I notice you didn't say you had many friends and family members who "are" homosexual...do you dispute their claims? Why is that important to you? |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 11, 2019 9:39:17 GMT -8
It's not, but is it important to Dave?
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 11, 2019 9:50:48 GMT -8
I notice you didn't say you had many friends and family members who "are" homosexual...do you dispute their claims? Irrelevant attempt at obfuscation. im not playing your re-definition of words game. you can play with yourself. OR you can try to stick to the topic Bick started. As I said elsewhere, you are not disparaged by your claim to be a homosexual. You are disparaged because of how you treat others. |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 11, 2019 10:10:35 GMT -8
I guess it is important. What word am I trying to redefine?
I think I am sticking to the topic, thx.
I would believe you Dave, but you and others had plenty of nasty things to say about me when I wasn't here treating anybody in any way whatsoever. Explain that. While you're at it, explain why all these nasty things people had to say were not about how I treated others but rather were just juvenile anti-gay BS that you'd typically find in a middle-school locker room.
In short, your claim is crap, and anyone reading the threads on this forum can see that.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 11, 2019 10:16:19 GMT -8
One last point Dave, from a perspective you may not have considered. You wrote:
Is it possible that your friends/relatives who are gay think you may hate them because you refer to their sexual identity as a "claim", rather than a simple statement of who they are?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 11, 2019 11:27:57 GMT -8
Finding offense in how someone addresses another, when none is intended and a function of a lack of familiarity, is pretty lame.
At what age did you think you might be gay, and at what point were you convinced?
Also curious if you were ever attracted to females. I know guys and gals who are Bi, so I'm assuming what they "claim" to be might be variable until they figure it out.
Apologies if this is too personal.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 11, 2019 12:04:58 GMT -8
Who's offended? I was merely offering Dave a perspective he might not have considered.
Well, when I first learned what the word meant I knew it applied to me. Looking back, I realize the feelings went back further than that.
Not in any way that would make me want to pursue them sexually.
Well, I've never seen any profit in arguing with someone over what they choose to label themselves so I'm good with whatever you want to call yourself, and it doesn't have to be permanent.
No problem.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 11, 2019 12:18:39 GMT -8
General statement on the unintended offense.
Can you share at what grade / age you were feeling it, and then when you came to terms with at (as opposed to any proclamation or "coming out")?
Did you feel like it was a preference, or more like a DNA level experience?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 11, 2019 13:08:46 GMT -8
I would believe you Dave, but you and others had plenty of nasty things to say about me when I wasn't here treating anybody in any way whatsoever. With all due respect, you are the only poster on this forum who refers to others here as "shit-for-brains" and "scum-lapping shit bag". Nobody here has said anything about you nearly as vile (pun intended), either before or after you arrived. Perhaps if you looked in the mirror before posting, many of your most offensive ones would never have seen the light of day. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 15, 2019 7:22:35 GMT -8
Gee thx Captain Obvious. And that's your opinion...we know how much those are worth don't we... Nope, sorry, but wrong again. sex with anyone or anything is a volitional act. Ergo, as I said, homosexual BEHAVIOR is a volitional act... much as you want to _______ some man, it is not a biological mandate. you lose again (or “still”). |
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 17, 2019 4:30:31 GMT -8
Well, as I said when I learned what the word meant. around 13-14, I knew it applied to me. When I look back I realize I had such feelings around the age of 6-7. I didn't "come out" until I was 19.
Despite Dave's insistence it's not a choice I made. It's who I am. If you look at your own experience I doubt you ever made a conscious choice to be heterosexual. It's just the way you were put together, no?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 17, 2019 8:08:08 GMT -8
My sense is that for the vast majority, we are as we are wired, and to expect someone to overcome the conflict of being something they really aren't, is a setup for failure. In other words, it's easy for me to sit in judgement of another who doesn't conform to what 95% of the rest are.
Fact is, I've seen kids who I knew were "different" at the same age you've mentioned, and wasn't very surprised to learn they came out as being gay. I can't really imagine what that must be like for a 6 year old to have to go through. I get the school yard bullying stuff. Most everyone has been bullied at one point or another. But I imagine for you and other kids, it must've reached the point of being unbearable. Not many here would be able to understand the experience of having a weight like that finally lifted when you came out and said, this is who I am...deal with it...because I sure as hell have.
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