Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,906
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Post by Bick on Jun 16, 2024 23:16:21 GMT -8
Extremes make the news. Not many CARE about the 80% in the middle.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,381
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Post by SK80 on Jun 17, 2024 7:09:21 GMT -8
You do seem to be confusing liberals with leftists or even Marxism Liberalism is the "Gates of Indoctrination" to Leftism and Marxism. Although somewhat further down the road, I find my good liberal friends of late denouncing the leftist, progressive, Marxist's amongst them & party. |
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Post by donnabarber on Jun 17, 2024 7:58:18 GMT -8
You do seem to be confusing liberals with leftists or even Marxism Liberalism is the "Gates of Indoctrination" to Leftism and Marxism. Although somewhat further down the road, I find my good liberal friends of late denouncing the leftist, progressive, Marxist's amongst them & party. No it isn't. Liberalism and Marxism are diametrically opposed with liberals valuing freedom, tolerance and fairness while Marxists despise those virtues. Like I said liberalism is NOT leftist let alone Marxism. Of course it suits the fake conservatives - emphasis in their case on the :con" - to pretend that they are because they have their own authoritarian agenda. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 17, 2024 8:26:37 GMT -8
No it isn't. Liberalism and Marxism are diametrically opposed with liberals valuing freedom, tolerance and fairness while Marxists despise those virtues.Like I said liberalism is NOT leftist let alone Marxism. Of course it suits the fake conservatives - emphasis in their case on the :con" - to pretend that they are because they have their own authoritarian agenda. Donna, now it is you who are doing the confusing. You are confusing classical liberalism with modern Western liberalism, and it is those two things that are now diametrically opposed. The definition of classical liberalism that you are using is obsolete and mostly irrelevant. Today's modern liberalism believes in freedom, tolerance and fairness only for specific groups, and anyone that they believe are in opposition to that world view are to be condemned or even destroyed. "Equity" and "inclusion" have been perverted into the opposite of what they used to mean, and that perversion was done almost exclusively by today's "liberals". |
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Post by donnabarber on Jun 17, 2024 8:38:20 GMT -8
No it isn't. Liberalism and Marxism are diametrically opposed with liberals valuing freedom, tolerance and fairness while Marxists despise those virtues.Like I said liberalism is NOT leftist let alone Marxism. Of course it suits the fake conservatives - emphasis in their case on the :con" - to pretend that they are because they have their own authoritarian agenda. Donna, now it is you who are doing the confusing. You are confusing classical liberalism with modern Western liberalism, and it is those two things that are now diametrically opposed. The definition of classical liberalism that you are using is obsolete and mostly irrelevant. Today's modern liberalism believes in freedom, tolerance and fairness only for specific groups, and anyone that they believe are in opposition to that world view are to be condemned or even destroyed. "Equity" and "inclusion" have been perverted into the opposite of what they used to mean, and that perversion was done almost exclusively by today's "liberals". I'm not confused; you are. Any person or group that doesn't make liberal values the bedrock of their political philosophy isn't a Liberal. There are plenty of fake liberals just as there are fake conservatives. I'm British and we - in spite of the increasing influence of American fake liberals and fake conservatives - still know what liberal values are. Michael Moore, AOC and similar scumbags are no more liberal than Donald Trump or that Kristy bitch are conservatives. Just as it suits the left to pretend to be liberal so it suits the right to pretend that leftism is liberalism Both are being conscious dishonest and deliberately misusing ideas and distorting language. |
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,381
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Post by SK80 on Jun 17, 2024 8:47:31 GMT -8
@ Donna do not confuse "Classical" Liberalism w/ todays liberalism.
Question: Are you residing in the USA as an Ex-Brit or do you chime in here from abroad? Would help better define your position(s).
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 17, 2024 15:25:42 GMT -8
I'm not confused; you are. Any person or group that doesn't make liberal values the bedrock of their political philosophy isn't a Liberal. There are plenty of fake liberals just as there are fake conservatives. I'm British and we - in spite of the increasing influence of American fake liberals and fake conservatives - still know what liberal values are. Michael Moore, AOC and similar scumbags are no more liberal than Donald Trump or that Kristy bitch are conservatives. Just as it suits the left to pretend to be liberal so it suits the right to pretend that leftism is liberalism Both are being conscious dishonest and deliberately misusing ideas and distorting language. Donna, I'm not confused at all. You, however, don't seem to understand how words and their meanings change and evolve over time, especially subjective words like "liberalism". Being British, I'm sure you know that a fag used to refer to a cigarette. But in today's world, I defy you to walk into any social gathering and proclaim that you'd like to "light up a fag" and see what happens. You can certainly insist on defining liberalism as John Locke did when he first wrote about it, or by what the term meant in the days of Disraeli and Gladstone. However, if the rest of the world does not agree with your definition and understands the word to have a different meaning today, and uses it under that new meaning, you are fighting a war you can't win. On the other hand, we do have some common ground. I agree that Michael Moore and AOC are not so much liberals as they are assholes. And that's a word whose meaning has hardly changed at all over the years. |
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,906
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Post by Bick on Jun 18, 2024 9:32:13 GMT -8
Donna... What are the main liberal values you espouse across the pond? I'm a little confused by this as well.
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
Posts: 860
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Post by tarmac on Jun 18, 2024 13:03:22 GMT -8
Over 8000 military man and woman were removed from the ranks for not getting the Covid vaccine. When the DOD saw what they did and told the military members they could return and only 46 did. The sometime the Liberal Left are trying to starting WW3 they are gutting our military.
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