RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Dec 20, 2019 7:11:18 GMT -8
Neither do I, however when he chooses what works for him & leaves out things that are tenets for a formal religion, he can't then claim to be a member of said religion. Mayor Pete may be a good man, he may be a spiritual person and he may have a very close relationship with God. However, because he chooses to commit homosexual acts and has no remorse for doing so & no plan to stop, he is not a Christian. Doesn't mean he is bad, does't mean he won't end up in heaven, it just means that he is not Christian. Really? I thought being a Christian meant you believe in Christ. I suppose Pete and I should be concerned that we're checking the correct boxes so that we could be recognized by others as meeting the criteria. But I'm guessing he and I don't really care much what anyone else thinks about it. Well, I don't anyway. I don't think there are many folks on the planet who don't believe in Christ, that he existed. People aren't Christian just because of that. To be Christian, one follows the teachings of Christ. If Mayor Pete thinks that what Christ said was correct except for that thing about homosexuality, then he is wrong, he isn't a Christian. He may be very spiritual and admire much of the teachings of Christ, but since he does not believe them all, he is fooling himself if he calls himself Christian. It is like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't, there is no kinda. You've taken this personally, as if I am saying you should be thrown out of any Christian congregation you are in if you don't tow the line 100%. That is not my point, my point is a bit more nuanced than that. I really don't care what people believe about themselves, until they go public with it and expose obvious hypocrisies between what they say & what they do. If you consider yourself Christian and there are tenets of the Christian faith that you believe are wrong, that is between you and your maker. None of my business. However, if you make a post about your Christianity and how you think there really is nothing wrong with adultery (just a random example), then you are revealing yourself as not really being Christian. Bick, your faith is yours alone, none of my business. You don't use your faith as a weapon like Mayor Pete does, so I have no comments on it. If you say your Christian, you are Christian, works for me. Fair enough? |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Dec 20, 2019 7:31:38 GMT -8
Neither do I, however when he chooses what works for him & leaves out things that are tenets for a formal religion, he can't then claim to be a member of said religion. Mayor Pete may be a good man, he may be a spiritual person and he may have a very close relationship with God. However, because he chooses to commit homosexual acts and has no remorse for doing so & no plan to stop, he is not a Christian. Doesn't mean he is bad, does't mean he won't end up in heaven, it just means that he is not Christian. Really? I thought being a Christian meant you believe in Christ. I suppose Pete and I should be concerned that we're checking the correct boxes so that we could be recognized by others as meeting the criteria. But I'm guessing he and I don't really care much what anyone else thinks about it. Well, I don't anyway. My interpretation of what RSM said is, to go to Heaven, one MUST have a relationship with Jesus Christ. it is not my job to judge whether or not ANYONE other than myself (and to a degree, maybe my immediate family) has that relationship. As a self-righteous human being, I would have said that thief hanging on the Cross next to Jesus wouldn’t make it: Reprobate his entire life but as his life drains out of him, a last minute confession of faith and he makes it in? That doesn’t meet my standard. Fortunately, however, Christ has a different standard. I WILL say, someone with a relationship with Christ will not want to continue in willful sin. One of the earmarks of such a relationship is, we want to listen to the aHoly Spirit and make those changes in our lives to become more like Jesus. We don’t have the excuse that we “don’t know such and such is sin” because we DO know, we always know if we have that relationship. So someone trying to fit Scripture into their behavior (a la “well Jesus lived with a bunch of guys...” sort of thing) will not be successful at convincing themselves their preferred behavior isn’t sin, but also, they would not even try unless they already know it is sin they are trying to rationalize. there are no check boxes. There is only “do I or do I not have a relationship with Christ?” that is the E-ticket to paradise, and there is only one per customer. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Dec 20, 2019 7:51:33 GMT -8
RSM / Dave - not in any way offended. I just don't agree with the notion that gays who engage in sex are not Christians.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Dec 20, 2019 8:09:50 GMT -8
OK, let me delve a little deeper if you don't mind. If Jeffrey Dahmer had proclaimed himself a Christian, would his actions invalidate that claim or should he be considered a Christian?
If invalidated in the above, is there a line where ones actions do or don't matter in Christianity?
If he should be considered a Christian, how is that different than a biological male proclaiming themself to be female?
I'm curious as to the line of thinking and how it plays out.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Dec 20, 2019 8:22:43 GMT -8
RSM / Dave - not in any way offended. I just don't agree with the notion that gays who engage in sex are not Christians. Nor do I agree with that notion. what RSM said is, if [the individual] wants to be a Christian, then their behavior has to be consistent with Gods character... but it is still between the individual and God. I then added to that by noting they (each individual) don’t get to reconcile Scripture to their behavior because 1) they cannot and 2) to even try shows they recognize that behavior is sin. but it is still between them and God. i will add here, a homosexual who persists in his or her sin (which is sex with someone of the same gender, but NOT the attraction or the temptation to it) is either 1) a non-Christian or 2) a Christian struggling with a temptation and sometimes failing... which we all do, albeit with different temptations. the point is, none of us has God’s ear when it comes to who is or is not a Christian. Whether they acknowledge it or not, EVERYONE has an innate knowledge of God. What we each do with that knowledge is up to us. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Dec 20, 2019 8:35:56 GMT -8
I never considered it very Christian like to label another a non-Christian.
But I'm open to the fact I'm not a very good Christian in the eyes of those who think they are.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Dec 20, 2019 8:41:44 GMT -8
a continuation of a discussion started in a different thread
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Dec 20, 2019 8:42:44 GMT -8
I never considered it very Christian like to label another a non-Christian. But I'm open to the fact I'm not a very good Christian in the eyes of those who think they are. Perhaps the most recent posts on this topic should be transferred to their own thread, which I have created. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Dec 20, 2019 8:50:21 GMT -8
I never considered it very Christian like to label another a non-Christian. But I'm open to the fact I'm not a very good Christian in the eyes of those who think they are. If you are responding to me (I can’t tell), it doesn’t matter what others think you are. it only matters what God thinks you are. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Dec 20, 2019 9:22:26 GMT -8
I never considered it very Christian like to label another a non-Christian. But I'm open to the fact I'm not a very good Christian in the eyes of those who think they are. Possibly, but I qualify as an agnostic for I believe in God, but I am just not sure which faith (if any) has it right and don't want to fake having faith in something that I don't. So I guess that gives me the freedom to label at will  . I would suppose that you & I share a huge majority of spiritual beliefs, however I don't believe I am Christian because there are tenets of the faith in which I disagree with. Same thing with Catholicism, having been baptized, confirmed and with 12 years of parochial school under my belt (pun intended), I could call myself Catholic. But to me, that would be a lie, because there are parts of Catholic theology that I either don't have faith in or don't agree with. I'm not interested in trying to bend Catholicism to fit my opinions, I didn't start the religion, it isn't mine to change. I would suggest that a huge percentage of folks who claim to be Christian are actually just spiritual. They are good people who believe Christ was the son of God, and they follow some portion of the Bible, but when push comes to shove, if the Bible gets in the way of what they really want or want to do, they discard it. That is not a negative towards them or Christianity, just an observation. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Dec 20, 2019 9:23:43 GMT -8
... which I have created. Oh, so now you think you are God, going around creating things. Harruummph!! |
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
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Post by tarmac on Dec 20, 2019 9:24:42 GMT -8
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
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Post by tarmac on Dec 20, 2019 9:34:32 GMT -8
Love your neighbor as yourself. If you love your neighbor tell him/her about the good news. Help your neighbor to stop living in sin. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
HELP THEM
SAVE THEM
LOVE THEM
TELL THEM
Matthew 28:19-20
“ Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Dec 20, 2019 9:46:45 GMT -8
Or leave your neighbor alone, he is Jewish and really does not want any pamphlets.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Dec 20, 2019 9:49:05 GMT -8
I never considered it very Christian like to label another a non-Christian. But I'm open to the fact I'm not a very good Christian in the eyes of those who think they are. Possibly, but I qualify as an agnostic for I believe in God, but I am just not sure which faith (if any) has it right and don't want to fake having faith in something that I don't. So I guess that gives me the freedom to label at will . I would suppose that you & I share a huge majority of spiritual beliefs, however I don't believe I am Christian because there are tenets of the faith in which I disagree with. Same thing with Catholicism, having been baptized, confirmed and with 12 years of parochial school under my belt (pun intended), I could call myself Catholic. But to me, that would be a lie, because there are parts of Catholic theology that I either don't have faith in or don't agree with. I'm not interested in trying to bend Catholicism to fit my opinions, I didn't start the religion, it isn't mine to change. I would suggest that a huge percentage of folks who claim to be Christian are actually just spiritual. They are good people who believe Christ was the son of God, and they follow some portion of the Bible, but when push comes to shove, if the Bible gets in the way of what they really want or want to do, they discard it. That is not a negative towards them or Christianity, just an observation. Wow...my sister pretty much said the exact same thing about me a few years ago. Spiritual, but not religious. I've never considered Christianity a religion, but more an umbrella for all the religions that believe he is the son of God. |
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