Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jan 11, 2020 17:26:58 GMT -8
Given how Iran handles dissension, this might be as safe as running with the bulls in Pamplona.
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Post by Zebra on Jan 13, 2020 8:37:30 GMT -8
No outrage from me. It's unfortunate and possibly criminal but with 25 airliner shootdowns since 1970 I woulda thunk the lesson is don't fly into airspace where missles are flying around or where your IFF isn't recognized or a itchy trigger finger is sitting in a CnC trailer freaking out. It ahppens and it'll happen again somewhere ... Except that this plane didn't fly into Iran...it was leaving Iran. I have no doubt that some Iranians, expecting an American retaliation thought that this was a B52, and panicked. If so this makes the Iranians look like a bunch of bumbling blithering idiots.Sort of like the USS Vincennes when we shot down their scheduled airliner in a known flight route? Shit happens when planes and missiles are around each other all the time.
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Post by Zebra on Jan 13, 2020 8:47:04 GMT -8
No outrage from me. It's unfortunate and possibly criminal but with 25 airliner shootdowns since 1970 I woulda thunk the lesson is don't fly into airspace where missles are flying around or where your IFF isn't recognized or a itchy trigger finger is sitting in a CnC trailer freaking out. It ahppens and it'll happen again somewhere ... I suspect that the pilot in the airliner didn't know that Iran had launched a bunch of missiles a few hours before and didn't know they were flying into (or out of) contested airspace. I don't think you can put any responsibility on the pilots. For God's sake, 7000 feet is only a little over a mile up. You can see the damned airplane from miles away. Firing a SAM at a relatively slow moving plane going away from you and gaining altitude when you're right near a commercial airport is amazingly amateurish. Why wouldn't Iran recognize an IFF?.......................................Luca Not putting the blame on the pilots, the airliner is the responsible party. And NOTAMS were issued to the region before the launches. It was some itchy trigger finger, it happens. Middle Eastern pilots are known for forgetting to do things like turn on transponders and code IFF wrong. In my days as an air traffic controller one thing I learned, middle eastern and pakistani pilots are the worst. I would never fly on that region, period, full stop. I agree it's amateurish, that's them. USS Vincennes shot down a slow moving scheduled airliner in a known flight corridor ascending and got mistaken for an F16 descending on an attack profile, how do you screw that one up? It's called screwing the pooch. There's been lots of incompetent people pushing buttons, I just hope my daughter sitting in a Titan III missile silo in North Dakota isn't one of them.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jan 13, 2020 14:27:03 GMT -8
Except that this plane didn't fly into Iran...it was leaving Iran. I have no doubt that some Iranians, expecting an American retaliation thought that this was a B52, and panicked. If so this makes the Iranians look like a bunch of bumbling blithering idiots.Sort of like the USS Vincennes when we shot down their scheduled airliner in a known flight route? Shit happens when planes and missiles are around each other all the time. Yes, which is why I couldn't understand their denial in the first place, considering that we had done the same thing. All they had to say is "It was a terrible mistake. America has had the same thing happen to them. We are grieving with the friends and relatives of the victims." One difference, however. According to wikipedia, " Vincennes had made ten attempts to contact the aircraft on both military and civilian radio frequencies, but had received no response."
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Post by Zebra on Jan 14, 2020 14:05:45 GMT -8
Sort of like the USS Vincennes when we shot down their scheduled airliner in a known flight route? Shit happens when planes and missiles are around each other all the time. Yes, which is why I couldn't understand their denial in the first place, considering that we had done the same thing. All they had to say is "It was a terrible mistake. America has had the same thing happen to them. We are grieving with the friends and relatives of the victims." One difference, however. According to wikipedia, " Vincennes had made ten attempts to contact the aircraft on both military and civilian radio frequencies, but had received no response." Gotta read the whole thing Prof .... further down "This civilian aircraft was not equipped to pick up military frequencies and the messages on the civilian emergency channel could have been directed at any aircraft." ... which is absolutely true. The Guard Channel is used for emergencies and civilian airliners aren't built for military communications. The Vincennes hailed as "Unidentified Iranian Aircraft". As far as the pilots of the Iranian airliner were concerned they weren't having and emergency, they weren't unidentified and they were on their flight path ascending in a normal profile for the plane. Vincennes guys were all jacked up to do something, that's what training does. There was alot of confusion in the Vincenes CnC pod at the time. When you're in high stress situations, training takes over and common sense goes out the window.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jan 14, 2020 14:56:24 GMT -8
The KING of KANADA has stated the same thing... it's Trumps fault that any further action now in Iran or most of the middle east is collateral damage CAUSED by Trump. Maybe PRINCE HARRY can talk some sense into him, well then again he is leaving the Monarchy and not sure how smart he really is...
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