Bick
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Post by Bick on Jan 30, 2020 10:07:38 GMT -8
In evaluating many of the contributors to this and other sites, not to mention the various media or "news" outlets, it seems clear we are often very hard pressed to consider our biases when considering our takes on the various subjects proffered here. I find myself more and more challenged to remain objective when reading some of our takes, which supports MDDad's concern of us becoming a mirror image of what many of us left over at OCConnect.
Not sure how realistic it is to argue the opposing positions, much like what is required of someone in a debate class, but I think it would be interesting...at least more interesting than just piling on easy targets like AOC. I'm as guilty as the next guy for engaging in this, mainly because of the fun I have piling on.
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Bick
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Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jan 30, 2020 10:37:36 GMT -8
I wouldn't know how to compare the 2 sites as to which is objectively "better". I'm pretty sure our participation is a lot higher on the political side, both with # of posts and different contributers.
But based on your L/R dial, I think we're a lot closer to being mirror images than not.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jan 30, 2020 10:54:43 GMT -8
I wouldn't know how to compare the 2 sites as to which is objectively "better". I'm pretty sure our participation is a lot higher on the political side, both with # of posts and different contributers. But based on your L/R dial, I think we're a lot closer to being mirror images than not. Think I'm losing you on the purpose of this thread. Did you not start an opposing "political" message board in which it is named "NON LIBERAL"...? If it is welcoming to "non-liberals" then I would expect that the majority here would be just that. I remember I even went as far at first invite to drop that term in the new name. Either way, yes that would lead this place to be a mirror image in ideas. So what? Where I would not want to mirror is in the petty childish nature that you will find daily on TOB. It was the "attack" mode over there that drove me away. I don't feel that here. I hope my questioning your thread purpose does not make me a attacker! I feel like you are advocating we are too far on one side thus we are simply mirrors and just as bad as TOB for being the opposite.
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Post by Zebra on Jan 30, 2020 11:03:34 GMT -8
The attack mode was the problem. Outside of football conversations, every discussion I was in on that other board turned into a cluster f%$#. One thing I'll never stand for is someone berating my military service and that of others. Wabash did that all the time .. thus if he and I are ever in the same proximity, he gets throat punched, period, full stop. When they personally go at you it no longer a discussion, it's battle.
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davidsf
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Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Jan 30, 2020 11:10:24 GMT -8
I disagree with your concern for a number of reasons.
First, I note the URL of our little corner of the world, here, contains the notation, “non-lib” which presupposes, to me, there is a side of the political spectrum that will not be as heavily represented (notwithstanding our long suffering of vile-boy). Even so, it is my observation that very few of you are at my end of the political spectrum (being strong conservative with a smattering of libertarian thrown in for spice). We... all of us... have argued with each other, but absent the name calling and character assassinations.
We argue amongst ourselves which is beneficial to the sharing of ideas and we have even expressed our pleasure that we can disagree without being disagreeable.
I also admit to being one of the few who will throw up [sic] the odd conspiracy or debunked rumor, but you should also have seen that, when I’m called on it, I do some damage control, usually deleting the individual post. Which shows, to me, WE keep each other honest which is a key ingredient to an exchange of ideas that is absolutely missing from other boards with which Imhave been affiliated.
I cannot say I would be as accommodating to someone like parrot or the fireman guy here. I resent being condescended to, and I stand up against logical fallacy. Today, I ask a question of someone, they typically answer (and this is the important part) BECAUSE THEY CAN. I don’t agree with everyone here, but everyone here can support their opinions, whether or not I accept their explanation. That has so seldom been the case in the other communities I’ve haunted (one or two of which, I moderated and spent way too much time trying to get people to disagree, agreeably).
So, I don’t miss the liberal zealot who quickly devolves to fantasy and name calling because they can’t support the opinion they got when they read a meme on Twitter or Facebook. You guys offer me plenty of argument (which I genuinely enjoy) without having to deal with the mental featherweight division.
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SK80
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Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jan 30, 2020 11:13:46 GMT -8
The attack mode was the problem. Outside of football conversations, every discussion I was in on that other board turned into a cluster f%$#. One thing I'll never stand for is someone berating my military service and that of others. Wabash did that all the time .. thus if he and I are ever in the same proximity, he gets throat punched, period, full stop. When they personally go at you it no longer a discussion, it's battle. You mean you, not even Zebra would refrain from a throat punch and just simply throw a flag!
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jan 30, 2020 13:20:14 GMT -8
I wouldn't know how to compare the 2 sites as to which is objectively "better". I'm pretty sure our participation is a lot higher on the political side, both with # of posts and different contributers. But based on your L/R dial, I think we're a lot closer to being mirror images than not. Think I'm losing you on the purpose of this thread. Did you not start an opposing "political" message board in which it is named "NON LIBERAL"...? If it is welcoming to "non-liberals" then I would expect that the majority here would be just that. I remember I even went as far at first invite to drop that term in the new name. Either way, yes that would lead this place to be a mirror image in ideas. So what? Where I would not want to mirror is in the petty childish nature that you will find daily on TOB. It was the "attack" mode over there that drove me away. I don't feel that here. I hope my questioning your thread purpose does not make me a attacker! I feel like you are advocating we are too far on one side thus we are simply mirrors and just as bad as TOB for being the opposite. Definitely no attack mode by anyone here, so yes, that is a point of differentiation. And we've figured out that being the grammar police, or the inability to admit being wrong, isn't all that productive either. I really enjoy that about our group. And yeah, I screwed up by calling this site non-lib. What I think would improve the dynamic, is at least a minimal effort at understanding the rationale behind the positions of the other side. Something along the lines of "here's where AOC gets the world will end in 12 years". The way it seems here now, there isn't a single idea coming from the left that isn't immediately dismissed as sheer lunacy. We (I) may ultimately conclude it to be so, but sometimes it feels like an Amway rally.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Jan 30, 2020 13:42:55 GMT -8
Think I'm losing you on the purpose of this thread. Did you not start an opposing "political" message board in which it is named "NON LIBERAL"...? If it is welcoming to "non-liberals" then I would expect that the majority here would be just that. I remember I even went as far at first invite to drop that term in the new name. Either way, yes that would lead this place to be a mirror image in ideas. So what? Where I would not want to mirror is in the petty childish nature that you will find daily on TOB. It was the "attack" mode over there that drove me away. I don't feel that here. I hope my questioning your thread purpose does not make me a attacker! I feel like you are advocating we are too far on one side thus we are simply mirrors and just as bad as TOB for being the opposite. Definitely no attack mode by anyone here, so yes, that is a point of differentiation. And we've figured out that being the grammar police, or the inability to admit being wrong, isn't all that productive either. I really enjoy that about our group. And yeah, I screwed up by calling this site non-lib. What I think would improve the dynamic, is at least a minimal effort at understanding the rationale behind the positions of the other side. Something along the lines of "here's where AOC gets the world will end in 12 years". The way it seems here now, there isn't a single idea coming from the left that isn't immediately dismissed as sheer lunacy. We (I) may ultimately conclude it to be so, but sometimes it feels like an Amway rally. We do ask them for their rationale. They cannot and, typically will not BECAUSE they cannot answer. Closest we get to a response at all is when they change the subject.
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Post by Zebra on Jan 30, 2020 13:51:18 GMT -8
The attack mode was the problem. Outside of football conversations, every discussion I was in on that other board turned into a cluster f%$#. One thing I'll never stand for is someone berating my military service and that of others. Wabash did that all the time .. thus if he and I are ever in the same proximity, he gets throat punched, period, full stop. When they personally go at you it no longer a discussion, it's battle. You mean you, not even Zebra would refrain from a throat punch and just simply throw a flag! If I did throw on him, the flag would be aimed at his Adam's apple (if he has one)
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Post by Zebra on Jan 30, 2020 13:54:53 GMT -8
Think I'm losing you on the purpose of this thread. Did you not start an opposing "political" message board in which it is named "NON LIBERAL"...? If it is welcoming to "non-liberals" then I would expect that the majority here would be just that. I remember I even went as far at first invite to drop that term in the new name. Either way, yes that would lead this place to be a mirror image in ideas. So what? Where I would not want to mirror is in the petty childish nature that you will find daily on TOB. It was the "attack" mode over there that drove me away. I don't feel that here. I hope my questioning your thread purpose does not make me a attacker! I feel like you are advocating we are too far on one side thus we are simply mirrors and just as bad as TOB for being the opposite. Definitely no attack mode by anyone here, so yes, that is a point of differentiation. And we've figured out that being the grammar police, or the inability to admit being wrong, isn't all that productive either. I really enjoy that about our group. And yeah, I screwed up by calling this site non-lib. What I think would improve the dynamic, is at least a minimal effort at understanding the rationale behind the positions of the other side. Something along the lines of "here's where AOC gets the world will end in 12 years". The way it seems here now, there isn't a single idea coming from the left that isn't immediately dismissed as sheer lunacy. We (I) may ultimately conclude it to be so, but sometimes it feels like an Amway rally.I made a lot of fast cash in that Amway scam ... best non job I ever had.
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RSM789
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Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Jan 30, 2020 19:55:22 GMT -8
I would say our opinions might be a mirror image, but not the way each site is run.
Best example I can give is how TOB has the motto "Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is" and then JQP only bans people with conservative or libertarian viewpoints. Meanwhile, Bick has not banned anyone, no matter their viewpoint or behavior, instead he just puts posts in their appropriate location.
That difference in the way the sites are run is a mirror image of the political ideologies of each. The left wants to shut you up if you don't agree with them and are too loud. The right will allow you to talk, although you may be escorted to a different room to carry on your rant if you raise your voice too high.
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Post by Zebra on Jan 31, 2020 14:12:19 GMT -8
Bick do you find yourself struggling with copyrights or some of the other publishing issues JQP had? It didn't seen very fair as far as posting other published material or is that a pay for play thing on message boards? Was just wondering.
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jan 31, 2020 16:10:49 GMT -8
I'll have to claim ignorance on that issue. No copywrite stuff I'm aware of, but I don't make any $$ here.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jan 31, 2020 16:49:28 GMT -8
Does that mean that it's not set up to earn you some money, or just that it hasn't happened yet?
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