Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 6, 2020 1:16:06 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right?
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Post by captaintrips on Feb 6, 2020 5:50:58 GMT -8
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 6, 2020 6:52:03 GMT -8
Trump attacked MITTens manhood.... Romney has a grudge, he chose to leek at this from left field.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 6, 2020 7:36:47 GMT -8
I voted for Romney, but also had concerns when I did: His government health plan was an unsustainable monstrosity that was contrary to the free market (or as close as we could get, anyway).
I also voted for him because the only other choice was Obama.
Lately, I have become increasingly concerned that Mitt Romney is channeling John McCain who, in the latter years of his life, took on the persona of an obstructionist and an irritant.
So, no, I do not believe his vote lent any credence to the charges at all.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 6, 2020 7:45:13 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Yes, it does. He believes that Trump used the power of the presidency and its purse strings In an attempt to coerce a foreign government to investigate a domestic political rival. That concept is valid but in reality there were multiple caveats. First being that the Bidens should have been investigated. There almost certainly was corruption there. Second, it was a feeble and aborted attempt at coercion. Third, the target of the coercion apparently didn't even know he was being - in theory - "coerced". Fourth, the purported threats were never carried out. You cannot have a quid-pro-quo when the "quid" is freely given and the target was never aware that a "quo" was required. Given all that, the vote to aquit is reasonable and logical. But Romney voted on the principle. alone. Romney is an honorable and decent guy who does not need or evidently want to compromise his principles to achieve political influence. So, yeah, it does indicate a theoretical - if circumscribed - validity to the charges...............................................Luca
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 6, 2020 8:59:04 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Yes, there is validity, but not enough. I agree with Luca. Given Trump's boorish personality and behavior, I think it's highly likely that he intended to strong-arm Ukraine into investigating the Bidens. But if Ukraine never saw the maneuver coming, and it was never delivered, then all we're left with is intent. And intent is not sufficient reason for removal from office.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 6, 2020 9:08:30 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Yes, there is validity, but not enough. I agree with Luca. Given Trump's boorish personality and behavior, I think it's highly likely that he intended to strong-arm Ukraine into investigating the Bidens. But if Ukraine never saw the maneuver coming, and it was never delivered, then all we're left with is intent. And intent is not sufficient reason for removal from office. Is validity "assumption" or "hearsay"? I still have my ear on what Dershowitz is now being burned at the stake for claiming in that every political occupier of any office has in the back of his mind is his or her opposition or challenger. It simply is human nature and political behavior. What is still missing here is a CRIME! Basically the Bidens, likely were doing or close to if you want to presume they are innocent, yet enough so that some intervention by our government or sitting President was probably appropriate and because it happened to be someone potentially becoming your political opponent must you stand down, sit on your hands for fear of having or being accused of having another motive, one that is personally beneficial should you find the person committing a crime. I guess from everything I have seen, Trump should have recluse himself from his office on this matter?
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 6, 2020 12:03:49 GMT -8
I have always heard, and have myself said, that Mitt Romney is a good & decent man. I didn't like him as a candidate, I thought he was too weak and caved in to pressure from the left, but was under the impression that he was a good man.
I now wonder if that whole "good & decent man" is nothing more than a PR campaign. What has Romney ever done publicly that was good & decent? Would a good & decent man go on national TV and attack a presidential candidate, only to turn around and later ask for a cabinet position. Plus, the man that Romney was warning us about has done an excellent job as president, so Mitt was completely wrong with his warning.
I have come to conclude that Romney is a fake, no different than a TV evangelist. He uses his faith as a weapon & a shield in the same way that McCain used his military experiences.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 6, 2020 12:58:20 GMT -8
One of my neighbors used to do business with Mitt Romney. That neighbor was a garrulous, profane, talk-out-of-the-side-of-your-mouth aggressive Chicago type. But when I asked him his opinion of Romney years ago he became quiet and respectful, saying "He's just a..... a..... gentleman." He didn't think Romney would be successful as a president because he wouldn't respond in kind when things got ugly.
Romney's been a very successful business guy, an excellent organizer and evidently a good father and husband. He's given away lots of money to charity and you don't see any tabloid stories about him.
So, yeah, I think he's a decent and honorable guy. Decent guys can have perspectives different than mine and it doesn't mean they're indecent. He felt that Trump's effort to get the Biden's investigated – even if the attempt was aborted and there were no consequences - was inappropriate, a bad precedent, and should be recognized as such.
He's entitled to that opinion. I think it's defensible and carries some weight.......................Luca
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duke
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Post by duke on Feb 6, 2020 14:11:38 GMT -8
Romney needed to pick his poison. He screwed his legacy by aligning himself with the likes of Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi and most of us have had enough of them. I also didn't like him hearing him say that what the President did, he should be impeached. It would have come across better if he would have prefaced it with " in my opinion."
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 6, 2020 14:41:19 GMT -8
If he had aligned himself with that group he would have voted for both motions. The distance between Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi versus Mit Romney is pretty substantial.
I don't think he ruined his legacy, such as it is, either. I don't know if he particularly cares about that. I think history will see him as someone who was alarmed by the precedent that was set by Trump's effort and was willing to go out on a limb to condemn it knowing that his vote was both symbolic and futile, and that he would get criticized for it.........................Luca
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 6, 2020 15:25:03 GMT -8
To vote for one article & not the other just to get a jab in to Trump was, in my opinion, petty. Romney, like McCain, has always wanted to look good to the press, so he threw them a bone to say that the case for impeaching Trump was bi-partisan. His ego, like McCains's was deflated when Trump was able to do something he couldn't - win a presidential election. He couldn't attack the country for voting for someone who he considers inferior to him, so he goes after Trump relentlessly instead.
He has nothing to lose. Most likely, he will not run for the Senate again. Who knows, maybe Romney will show his true colors and announce this weekend he is running for President on the Democratic ticket.
All of the Mormons I have known were vastly different in public versus private. I believe Romney is the same, the gentlemen act is there for show only to those outside his inner circle (family or extremely close friends). He probably hates puppies and tells kids there is no Easter Bunny.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 6, 2020 15:25:07 GMT -8
I was stuck in a situation yesterday where I had to listen to 790 KABC-AM conservative talk radio for over two hours. I caught the last hour of one host's show and the first hour of the next one. Both of them spent the entire time I was listening to railing about what a traitor Mitt Romney is. The second host even called him a "despicable P.O.S." They ranted about how his statements, his vote and his position meant nothing, and that we was nothing more than a narcissist with a huge ego who was preening for the media and "spreading his peacock feathers".
I couldn't help but think about the hypocrisy. These two hosts are both ardent supporters of President Trump. Given that, how can they possibly criticize another politician for being narcissistic, being egotistical, preening or spreading his peacock feathers, when Trump embodies more of those four traits than any president we've ever had?
It's a good example of how most of us see faults in others that we can't see or refuse to acknowledge in ourselves.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Feb 6, 2020 15:33:20 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Uh, no. Mitt's act has run its course. He is a RINO, a moral preener, and now a backstabber. His temporary friends on the Left this week were the same ones calling him a racist and a misogynist in 2012; his stupidly reasoned vote provided some cover to the Democrats ("conscience", my ass...) and he only hurt those Senate Republicans who may be vulnerable to defeat this November. I believe his vote was purely out of personal spite for Trump and, worse, he in no way represented the will of the people in Utah who elected him. May the good citizens of Utah have him recalled from the Senate.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 6, 2020 16:23:00 GMT -8
Bwahahahaa!!!
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