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Post by captaintrips on Feb 6, 2020 17:50:40 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Uh, no. Mitt's act has run its course. He is a RINO, a moral preener, and now a backstabber. His temporary friends on the Left this week were the same ones calling him a racist and a misogynist in 2012; his stupidly reasoned vote provided some cover to the Democrats ("conscience", my ass...) and he only hurt those Senate Republicans who may be vulnerable to defeat this November. I believe his vote was purely out of personal spite for Trump and, worse, he in no way represented the will of the people in Utah who elected him. May the good citizens of Utah have him recalled from the Senate. They're going to one way or another eventually. The man is truly nasty. A gross pig in the well dressed man disguise. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 6, 2020 18:53:33 GMT -8
When a guy like Mitt Romney votes to convict, it's got to at least raise concern there's some validity to what Trump was charged with... right? Uh, no. Mitt's act has run its course. He is a RINO, a moral preener, and now a backstabber. His temporary friends on the Left this week were the same ones calling him a racist and a misogynist in 2012; his stupidly reasoned vote provided some cover to the Democrats ("conscience", my ass...) and he only hurt those Senate Republicans who may be vulnerable to defeat this November. I believe his vote was purely out of personal spite for Trump and, worse, he in no way represented the will of the people in Utah who elected him. May the good citizens of Utah have him recalled from the Senate. I remember a good friend of mine calling me a RINO once. Had to remind him I'm an independent, and can think for myself without the need for partisan talking points. I think that term goes with anyone who doesn't subscribe entirely to conservative ideology. The fact there is so much vitriol towards him voting his conscience, further cements my disdain for either party. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 6, 2020 20:26:14 GMT -8
...The fact there is so much vitriol towards him voting his conscience, further cements my disdain for either party. Bick, like you I have no love for the Republican party, I use my registration in it to vote for more libertarian candidates. However, Romney didn't vote his conscience, he voted with his heart. A heart black with jealousy and hatred, that he is not allowed to expose to the public, lest he soil the image he has worked so hard to create. Wouldn't a man with a conscience who tried to derail Trumps presidential campaign the way Romney did, make a public statement with at least as much flair giving him credit for what he has done? Romney's call on Trump, that he was a fraud, was completely proven wrong and rather than man up and admitting it, he doubled down and pulled a Pelosi type move. He is a dick. As a comparison, look at Lindsay Graham. Graham & Trump went at it during the campaign and early in Trumps presidency. As Trump began to get results, Graham gave him credit. He still disagrees with Trump on many policy decisions, but is not so ego driven that he feels a compulsion to make Trump look bad any chance he can. If Romney is such a great man, why did he choose to run for Senate anyway? His life is set, that seat would be held by a conservative had he not run, why did he want to take time away from his family to become a Senator? For one reason only, to do what he did when given the opportunity. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 7, 2020 6:50:37 GMT -8
RSM - you may very well be correct that his motives were nefarious,and it was more about positioning himself as the next John McCain.
But, I could also see myself voting the same way had I seen all the unfiltered evidence. Fact is though, I didn't, and neither did anyone else here.
Here's the real question, when was the last time ANY politician broke ranks with his party that WASN'T called a sellout / traitor / RINO or DINO?
Let me take it even further, I'm far more interested when I see someone breaking ranks with group think, than I am with the expected bleating of partisan politics. I'll listen to Tulsi Gabbard, even though there are things I don't agree with her about, and won't dismiss her as being some lunatic.
I guess what I'm trying to say, albeit in a very inarticulate way, is that I celebrate our differences, and think we need more of it than less.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 7, 2020 7:10:00 GMT -8
I too celebrate our differences, I suppose that is why I despise the liberals and their positions on so many things in their effort to homogenize everything and everyone. I will also add if you are not a fan of group think, you certainly can not be a Democrat. They are by far the leaders in this solidarity mind set. Trump yesterday actually brought it up in his speech at the White House.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 7, 2020 7:14:53 GMT -8
I too celebrate our differences, I suppose that is why I despise the liberals and their positions on so many things in their effort to homogenize everything and everyone. I will also add if you are not a fan of group think, you certainly can not be a Democrat. They are by far the leaders in this solidarity mind set. Trump yesterday actually brought it up in his speech at the White House. It ain't just the Dems, SK80. Moderates on either side pretty much get lynched by the more vocal extremes. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 7, 2020 7:44:10 GMT -8
If Mitt Romney really was concerned about the President setting a precedent of undue influence or coercion over a foreign government for his own benefit, it will be interesting to see how he responds to accusations that Joe Biden did exactly the same, but much more blatant thing.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 7, 2020 7:51:58 GMT -8
If Mitt Romney really was concerned about the President setting a precedent of undue influence or coercion over a foreign government for his own benefit, it will be interesting to see how he responds to accusations that Joe Biden did exactly the same, but much more blatant thing. You may be right, but when was the last time someone broke ranks that wasn't accused of being a sellout? Doesn't it concern you that the first reaction is NOT to give the benefit of the doubt? |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 7, 2020 7:57:31 GMT -8
If Mitt Romney really was concerned about the President setting a precedent of undue influence or coercion over a foreign government for his own benefit, it will be interesting to see how he responds to accusations that Joe Biden did exactly the same, but much more blatant thing. You may be right, but when was the last time someone broke ranks that wasn't accused of being a sellout? Doesn't it concern you that the first reaction is NOT to give the benefit of the doubt? In today’s staunchly partisan, toe-the-party-line environment, no: Benefit of the doubt is the first casualty. what concerns me is ... well ... today’s staunchly partisan, toe-the-party-line environment. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 7, 2020 7:58:38 GMT -8
@bick, not sure I can address you any longer until I clear up the notion(s), you like, praise, stand behind Romney for doing what he felt right or believe in voting for impeachment or you believe he was right in his actual belief Trump is guilty of a crime that is impeachable and you thus believe Trump is guilty and should have been removed from office...?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 7, 2020 8:48:54 GMT -8
@bick, not sure I can address you any longer until I clear up the notion(s), you like, praise, stand behind Romney for doing what he felt right or believe in voting for impeachment or you believe he was right in his actual belief Trump is guilty of a crime that is impeachable and you thus believe Trump is guilty and should have been removed from office...? From what I understand, which is limited by virtue of biased reporting v the unfiltered testimony, his interaction with the Ukraine did not seem impeachable. To Luca's point, there wasn't really a quid or a quo, as there seems to have been with Biden. What I celebrate, assuming his intent was honorable, is the fact he did vote against party lines. I think it should be disappointing to all Americans that he was pretty much the only one from either side to do so in either the house or senate. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 7, 2020 9:51:19 GMT -8
The man is truly nasty. A gross pig in the well dressed man disguise. How do you know that? Why do you draw that conclusion? |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 7, 2020 10:21:54 GMT -8
To vote for one article & not the other just to get a jab in to Trump was, in my opinion, petty. Romney, like McCain, has always wanted to look good to the press, so he threw them a bone to say that the case for impeaching Trump was bi-partisan...... All of the Mormons I have known were vastly different in public versus private. I believe Romney is the same, the gentlemen act is there for show only to those outside his inner circle (family or extremely close friends). He probably hates puppies and tells kids there is no Easter Bunny. I think Romney's votes were logically consistent. He voted against impeachment on the basis of Obstruction of Congress because a president has every right to refuse to allow one of this advisors to testify before Congress. It's called "executive privilege" and there is ample precedent for it. There is nothing remotely illegal about it. So he voted no. But he evidently did believe there was sufficient reason to conclude that the president overtly tried to tie American aid to an attempt to gain an advantage on a political opponent. So he voted yes. It’s a dangerous precedent to make US aid a leverage to be used for gain against a domestic opponent. I don;t think any of us would like to see that become an acceptable standard. Romney must have believed it was close enough to abuse to justify his vote and thus make it clear that such behavior in the future is impeachable. None of us here believe that, but opinions can vary and don’t necessarily indicate satanic motives. His vote was purely symbolic and I suspect it was intended as such. Everyone knew that no matter which way he voted it would not change the outcome. His vote didn’t make the attempt "bipartisan". I think we’d agree that the HOR vote to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate was clearly partisan even though a couple Democrats voted against it. One or two votes do not define bipartisanship. I don’t like generalizing about people based on politics or religion, but my impression of Mormons has been almost uniformly positive. I have known a lot of them and have been almost invariably impressed by their behavior and integrity. No doubt there are outliers, but my experience has been vastly different from yours………………………………..Luca |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 7, 2020 10:31:17 GMT -8
The final straw for me in regards to considering Romney a phony was the way he came out against Trump the candidate. I can understand having concerns about a candidate and voicing them, but Romney went full smear campaign on him and has never acknowledged that he was wrong (as far as Trumps ability to be a competent president). Compare Romney to someone like Greg Gutfeld, who also voiced concerns about Trump the candidate. The difference is that Gutfeld didn't smear Trump and now admits he was wrong based on the results Trump has gotten.
Luca is probably the most level headed, decent person I know (yes, I don't get out much). I can imagine Luca having concerns about Trump the candidate, however, I can't imagine Luca giving a public rant using the terms that Romney did in voicing his opposition. No truly decent man would have stooped as low as Romney went and then not apologized later for being wrong. When I compare Luca to Romney, I see a true gentleman versus a manipulative phony.
How the Republican party sees Romney (or Luca for that matter) is of no concern to me. The Republican party has a different agenda that I don't necessarily follow.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Feb 7, 2020 11:02:08 GMT -8
I appreciate your comments, RSM, ummerited as they are. (Boy, you really don’t get out much)
I have a tendency to be naïve. You may be correct about Romney and I may be wrong. You may know more than I do about the man. But when I look at him I see a guy who seems to have lived an ethical life from birth. His father was a wealthy man and successful politician, but Romney gave away his inheritance in order to make it on his own. He was highly successful in business. He reminded me of Peter Ueberroth in how he could cut through bureaucracy and get things done. Because of his character, family life, success in business, demeanor and willingness to compromise I thought he would be an effective president and unifier. I still do. (As I said, I can be naïve)
But he got trashed like I couldn’t believe in 2012 by a bunch of partisan low-lifes because of the way he directed Bain and Company, running it like any businessman should and doing what he was paid to do. Nothing wrong in that but he was demonized for it and that annoyed the hell out of me. Still does.
But he stayed above the fray and to my knowledge was never vindictive about it publicly or privately. I’m not familiar with what happened regarding his relationship with President Trump (I love using that term because it pisses off so many partisans). If he was out of line, it’s the only time I am aware of that he has been. As always, opinions can vary. Thanks for your comments………………………………..Luca
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