SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Feb 9, 2020 17:34:08 GMT -8
I don't know RSM, but that club seems to be pretty damn big. How could ANYONE not have had an issue with Trump that would have voted against him? Seems a lot like circular logic. You guys may very well be correct. Also, think about exactly what Romney voted on. He voted to remove the current president from office for that phone call. Not censure him, not scold him, not tell him that was a bad thing to do. No, he voted to remove a duly elected president from office, because he doesn't like him. Wow!! Romney must think very highly of his ability to judge character.He is of course a SAINT from the Latter Day...... |
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Post by coach on Feb 9, 2020 18:10:22 GMT -8
I read recently, His chief of staff and son works for Burisma! Why else would he vote for conviction? I’m not entirely sure I follow your reasoning here.................Luca It is the one of the most corrupt energy companies in the Ukraine where John Kerry's step son, Hunter Biden and other democratic politicians works for. |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Feb 9, 2020 18:25:24 GMT -8
As an aside, all of the dems voted that they needed additional witnesses in order to come to a conclusion. Then, without those witnesses, they voted guilty. Why did they want those witnesses then, to somehow prove Trump not guilty? This is an excellent observation that has not been given enough attention. Clearly Senate Democrats had already made up their minds even in the absence of these "crucial" witnesses. So much for impartiality. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 10, 2020 8:39:12 GMT -8
Help me understand your last statement, RSM:
To the best of my recollection, the Senate FIRST decides innocence or guilt on the accusations (articles of impeachment) and after, if found guilty, they determine the just punishment Hinch can include removal, but doesn’t necessarily have to.
I Think, though I could be mistaken, Romney only voted on the president’s guilt and not for his removal (although he might have expressed that preference in statements).
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Feb 10, 2020 9:53:07 GMT -8
As an aside, all of the dems voted that they needed additional witnesses in order to come to a conclusion. Then, without those witnesses, they voted guilty. Why did they want those witnesses then, to somehow prove Trump not guilty? This is an excellent observation that has not been given enough attention. Clearly Senate Democrats had already made up their minds even in the absence of these "crucial" witnesses. So much for impartiality. I thought those witnesses were listened to in the HOUSE and they had their HIGH CRIME & MISDEMEANOR? #GuessNot #RushToJudgement |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 10, 2020 16:38:22 GMT -8
Help me understand your last statement, RSM: To the best of my recollection, the Senate FIRST decides innocence or guilt on the accusations (articles of impeachment) and after, if found guilty, they determine the just punishment Hinch can include removal, but doesn’t necessarily have to. I Think, though I could be mistaken, Romney only voted on the president’s guilt and not for his removal (although he might have expressed that preference in statements). From what I have read, impeachment is done as a way to remove a president from office while censure is a way to reprimand him. If the Senate convicts on the articles of impeachment, the punishment (removal from office) has already been determined. Censure has a lot of leeway as to what the punishment can be. Romney voted that he believed Trump was guilty and should be removed from office. |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Feb 11, 2020 7:59:46 GMT -8
I’m not entirely sure I follow your reasoning here.................Luca It is the one of the most corrupt energy companies in the Ukraine where John Kerry's step son, Hunter Biden and other democratic politicians works for. I know what Burisma is but I had never heard that Romney's son and Chief of Staff worked for them. In what capacity? Even assuming that to be the case, we all knew that Mit Romney's vote was going to be meaningless in terms of outcome. Donald Trump was going to be acquitted under any circumstances. It would seem to me that were Romney motivated - as you say - merely by a desire to protect his son and Chief of Staff that he would have voted for aquittal so as not to unnecessarily antagonize a president who has the power to initiate an investigation of that relationship. The assumption by so many here that Romney's vote must have had some malevolent hidden motivation is to me one more indicator of the polarization of thought that is so prevalent today. If you glance at TOB from time to time as I do you see this mentality at work, where every contrary opinion is automatically assumed to be either a product of stupifying ignorance or malice and cynicism, if not downright evil . In actuality, it's like Freud once said: " Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."....................................................Luca |
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Feb 11, 2020 8:46:24 GMT -8
Leave it to the doctor to articulate what I was clearly incapable of.
I'll take it a step further. I've had this notion for some time now that the accusatory thoughts are often a reflection of one's own feelings had they been in that position.
Does Freud have an opinion about that?
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 11, 2020 9:49:48 GMT -8
Help me understand your last statement, RSM: To the best of my recollection, the Senate FIRST decides innocence or guilt on the accusations (articles of impeachment) and after, if found guilty, they determine the just punishment Hinch can include removal, but doesn’t necessarily have to. I Think, though I could be mistaken, Romney only voted on the president’s guilt and not for his removal (although he might have expressed that preference in statements). From what I have read, impeachment is done as a way to remove a president from office while censure is a way to reprimand him. If the Senate convicts on the articles of impeachment, the punishment (removal from office) has already been determined. Censure has a lot of leeway as to what the punishment can be. Romney voted that he believed Trump was guilty and should be removed from office. You’re right. I don’t know from where I got the notion that removal wasn’t automatic, but I re-read Article 2, Section 4 of the Constitution: |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Feb 11, 2020 10:53:44 GMT -8
Leave it to the doctor to articulate what I was clearly incapable of. I'll take it a step further. I've had this notion for some time now that the accusatory thoughts are often a reflection of one's own feelings had they been in that position. Does Freud have an opinion about that? He'd think that's a pretty good theory: that people assume their personal opinions to be objective facts when really they're mere personal opinions, and therefore they conclude that any behavior contrary to those opinions must necessarily be malicious. But he would also conclude that you have an unseemly phallic obsession exacerbated by feelings of inadequacy and gender confusion..........................................Luca |
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Post by coach on Feb 11, 2020 15:26:33 GMT -8
It is the one of the most corrupt energy companies in the Ukraine where John Kerry's step son, Hunter Biden and other democratic politicians works for. I know what Burisma is but I had never heard that Romney's son and Chief of Staff worked for them. In what capacity? Even assuming that to be the case, we all knew that Mit Romney's vote was going to be meaningless in terms of outcome. Donald Trump was going to be acquitted under any circumstances. It would seem to me that were Romney motivated - as you say - merely by a desire to protect his son and Chief of Staff that he would have voted for aquittal so as not to unnecessarily antagonize a president who has the power to initiate an investigation of that relationship. The assumption by so many here that Romney's vote must have had some malevolent hidden motivation is to me one more indicator of the polarization of thought that is so prevalent today. If you glance at TOB from time to time as I do you see this mentality at work, where every contrary opinion is automatically assumed to be either a product of stupifying ignorance or malice and cynicism, if not downright evil . In actuality, it's like Freud once said: " Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."....................................................Luca I made a mistake - Joseph Cofer Black, a national security adviser for the 2012 Mitt Romney campaign, sits on the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, the Ukrainian oil and gas giant that paid at times more than $83,000 per month to Hunter Biden, former Vice President Joe Biden’s youngest son. |
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