MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 22, 2020 8:05:34 GMT -8
The only thing bostondave has stumped is his contention that he has debating skills.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 22, 2020 8:43:37 GMT -8
The only thing bostondave has stumped is his contention that he has debating skills. OK, I’ll give him that one... but he said “two threads.” any thoughts what he could consider his 2nd one (even if it’s not an entire thread)? |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 9:32:34 GMT -8
I guess I didn't make myself clear. It never occurred to me to: 1. Pretend I know what another person believes 2. Decide that person intended to deceive based on that presumption 3. Keep track of how many of those presumptions I decided were "lies" 4. Come up with some measurement to determine the type of those lies. Clearly, it's important to you, and that's perfectly OK. It just isn't my thing. Most every person here agrees that politicians lie, and Trump being a politician, lies. You've made it clear that you hate dishonesty, which, I assume means, you don't like or trust politicians. OK. What's not clear, is why you continue to repeat yourself with the same mantra. Would you consider that behavior to be...pathological? Politicians lie. Traitor is a pathological liar. There's quite a difference there. No politician before has been a pathological liar. Why is him being a pathological liar ok with you? And do you agree when he says his response has been "perfect"? Which politician can you remember ever having said that?
Out of curiosity, I'll give this another shot. Given you keep asking me how him being a pathological liar is OK with me, when I've already said on multiple occasions that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a pathological lie, you don't seem to be comprehending my responses to you. What is your definition of a "pathological" liar v. a run of the mill liar? |
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 14:10:12 GMT -8
Politicians lie. Traitor is a pathological liar. There's quite a difference there. No politician before has been a pathological liar. Why is him being a pathological liar ok with you? And do you agree when he says his response has been "perfect"? Which politician can you remember ever having said that?
Out of curiosity, I'll give this another shot. Given you keep asking me how him being a pathological liar is OK with me, when I've already said on multiple occasions that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a pathological lie, you don't seem to be comprehending my responses to you. What is your definition of a "pathological" liar v. a run of the mill liar? A pathological liar will calmly and cooly lie to your face knowing that you know he's lying. There's some sort of mental disorder involved. A pathology. He has it. A pathological liar makes no sense as to why they lie. A regular liar has a reason to lie, not a pathological liar. Google is your friend.
You seem to be trying to turn sideways, oblique the issue. Leaving pathology aside would you say Traitor lies a lot more than most?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 15:11:35 GMT -8
Out of curiosity, I'll give this another shot. Given you keep asking me how him being a pathological liar is OK with me, when I've already said on multiple occasions that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a pathological lie, you don't seem to be comprehending my responses to you. What is your definition of a "pathological" liar v. a run of the mill liar? A pathological liar will calmly and cooly lie to your face knowing that you know he's lying. There's some sort of mental disorder involved. A pathology. He has it. A pathological liar makes no sense as to why they lie. A regular liar has a reason to lie, not a pathological liar. Google is your friend. You seem to be trying to turn sideways, oblique the issue. Leaving pathology aside would you say Traitor lies a lot more than most?
Dave, this will be a lot easier if you would acknowledge that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a lie, pathological or otherwise. I will say this, I wouldn't give a "regular" liar a pass just because he has a reason to lie. A lie involves intent. You have yet to offer any shred of proof that you are capable of knowing what someone intends, and that puts you in the same bucket as those who just regurgitate hyperbole. Except for very rare instances, I do not know what someone's intent is because I can't read minds. At the end of the day, the only time it would really matter to me is if I relied upon someone's word to make a decision. What I'm most concerned with, is what I can verify. I can verify if something is accurate, or inaccurate. I have no way of knowing if the person I relied upon intentionally deceived, or they were just providing unreliable information. I don't really care which it is. If you can't supply me with accurate information from which to base a decision, then shame on me for relying upon you going forward. But I sure as hell won't sit around and bitch about it. |
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 15:23:19 GMT -8
A pathological liar will calmly and cooly lie to your face knowing that you know he's lying. There's some sort of mental disorder involved. A pathology. He has it. A pathological liar makes no sense as to why they lie. A regular liar has a reason to lie, not a pathological liar. Google is your friend. You seem to be trying to turn sideways, oblique the issue. Leaving pathology aside would you say Traitor lies a lot more than most?
Dave, this will be a lot easier if you would acknowledge that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a lie, pathological or otherwise. I will say this, I wouldn't give a "regular" liar a pass just because he has a reason to lie. A lie involves intent. You have yet to offer any shred of proof that you are capable of knowing what someone intends, and that puts you in the same bucket as those who just regurgitate hyperbole. Except for very rare instances, I do not know what someone's intent is because I can't read minds. At the end of the day, the only time it would really matter to me is if I relied upon someone's word to make a decision. What I'm most concerned with, is what I can verify. I can verify if something is accurate, or inaccurate. I have no way of knowing if the person I relied upon intentionally deceived, or they were just providing unreliable information. I don't really care which it is. If you can't supply me with accurate information from which to base a decision, then shame on me for relying upon you going forward. But I sure as hell won't sit around and bitch about it. I see what you're typing but it makes no sense. So lets explore this "attitutde" of yours that seems to hold you don't care if someone lies to you or not? Would that be an accurate description? That you don't care who lies to you? Or that you don't care about the lie being told to you whether small or large? This is rather a novel idea I must say. So lets hash this out as fully as possible and explain yourself a bit better because I can't really grasp what it is you're saying. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 22, 2020 15:25:12 GMT -8
Pathological, even by Politifact's liberal standards: Politifact awards ‘Lie of the Year’ to Obamawww.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/12/12/politifact-awards-lie-of-the-year-to-obama/There's no doubt Trump is a born carnival barker, and his adherence to strict facts is sometimes loose (no different from almost every traditional politician, if we took the time scrutinize their words). He employs rhetorical hyperbole in a way that can be annoying, no doubt, but rarely does he tell an outright lie. Too many in the Leftist fever swamps cannot (or will not, disingenuously) tell the difference between an opinion and a lie. They insist on calling anything they disagree with a lie, until the term becomes utterly useless. |
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 15:29:34 GMT -8
1 compared to 15,000+ and counting. It aint close.
***And we could argue about it being a "lie". It's actually questionable. Not so with Traitor's pathological lies.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 15:47:43 GMT -8
Dave, this will be a lot easier if you would acknowledge that I have neither the ability nor inclination to evaluate what is or isn't a lie, pathological or otherwise. I will say this, I wouldn't give a "regular" liar a pass just because he has a reason to lie. A lie involves intent. You have yet to offer any shred of proof that you are capable of knowing what someone intends, and that puts you in the same bucket as those who just regurgitate hyperbole. Except for very rare instances, I do not know what someone's intent is because I can't read minds. At the end of the day, the only time it would really matter to me is if I relied upon someone's word to make a decision. What I'm most concerned with, is what I can verify. I can verify if something is accurate, or inaccurate. I have no way of knowing if the person I relied upon intentionally deceived, or they were just providing unreliable information. I don't really care which it is. If you can't supply me with accurate information from which to base a decision, then shame on me for relying upon you going forward. But I sure as hell won't sit around and bitch about it. I see what you're typing but it makes no sense. So lets explore this "attitutde" of yours that seems to hold you don't care if someone lies to you or not? Would that be an accurate description? That you don't care who lies to you? Or that you don't care about the lie being told to you whether small or large? This is rather a novel idea I must say. So lets hash this out as fully as possible and explain yourself a bit better because I can't really grasp what it is you're saying. Fair enough. You give me directions how to get to the best place to park at Fenway. I rely on your directions, and somehow end up at the Garden. After reviewing those directions, I saw you had me turn left on Boylston St instead of right. Do I know whether or not you intended to give me the wrong directions? No. Will I rely on you for directions again? Maybe, but not if you consistently give me the wrong info. Capice? |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 15:57:06 GMT -8
Pathological, even by Politifact's liberal standards: Politifact awards ‘Lie of the Year’ to Obamawww.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/12/12/politifact-awards-lie-of-the-year-to-obama/There's no doubt Trump is a born carnival barker, and his adherence to strict facts is sometimes loose (no different from almost every traditional politician, if we took the time scrutinize their words). He employs rhetorical hyperbole in a way that can be annoying, no doubt, but rarely does he tell an outright lie. Too many in the Leftist fever swamps cannot (or will not, disingenuously) tell the difference between an opinion and a lie. They insist on calling anything they disagree with a lie, until the term becomes utterly useless. This explains my position better than I have. Trump annoys the hell out of me with his BS - whether you call it rhetorical hyperbole, grandiose blathering, white lies, green lies or pathological lies. I can't really stand people who are so confident of their own opinions, there is little to no room of the possibility they are wrong...according to them. Trump falls into that bucket for me, and I assume others here as well. But so do liberals, conservatives, or ANYONE ELSE who offer nothing more than mindless, unobjective, regurgitated hyperbole, and are even more cocksure of their positions. |
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 16:05:41 GMT -8
Pathological, even by Politifact's liberal standards: Politifact awards ‘Lie of the Year’ to Obamawww.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/12/12/politifact-awards-lie-of-the-year-to-obama/There's no doubt Trump is a born carnival barker, and his adherence to strict facts is sometimes loose (no different from almost every traditional politician, if we took the time scrutinize their words). He employs rhetorical hyperbole in a way that can be annoying, no doubt, but rarely does he tell an outright lie. Too many in the Leftist fever swamps cannot (or will not, disingenuously) tell the difference between an opinion and a lie. They insist on calling anything they disagree with a lie, until the term becomes utterly useless. This explains my position better than I have. Trump annoys the hell out of me with his BS - whether you call it rhetorical hyperbole, grandiose blathering, white lies, green lies or pathological lies. I can't really stand people who are so confident of their own opinions, there is little to no room of the possibility they are wrong...according to them. Trump falls into that bucket for me, and I assume others here as well. But so do liberals, conservatives, or ANYONE ELSE who offer nothing more than mindless, unobjective, regurgitated hyperbole, and are even more cocksure of their positions. So it seems you reflexively knee-jerk the reflexive knee-jerk of his detractors? Is that getting close? |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 16:33:42 GMT -8
I did the same thing with the unobjective Obama detractors as well.
I thought I was clear that I have a problem with mindless hyperbole.
Let's try something different. Instead of me repeating myself multiple times, you just read it as many times as you need. No shame in that. I've watched the Dirty Dozen about 20 times, and pick up new stuff each time.
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 17:32:40 GMT -8
I did the same thing with the unobjective Obama detractors as well. I thought I was clear that I have a problem with mindless hyperbole. Let's try something different. Instead of me repeating myself multiple times, you just read it as many times as you need. No shame in that. I've watched the Dirty Dozen about 20 times, and pick up new stuff each time. Not my fault you can't seem to articulate your own notions. Either that or you haven't thought them out well enough. But perhaps we can come back to the weird notion you have that you don't mind, don't care, or don't know when someone is lying to you.
What you do seem to repeat is the notion of "they all do it". All politicians lie. Ok, we agree on that. Some are worst than others, this one is the worst ever. This is something that doesn't have to be relegated to opinion or feeling. With this moron it's quantitatively and qualitatively different and there's no comparison. He is the absolute worst ever. Now do you consider any of that "mindless hyperbole"? Because we can delve into it and find the facts to bolster it.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 22, 2020 18:43:33 GMT -8
I did the same thing with the unobjective Obama detractors as well. I thought I was clear that I have a problem with mindless hyperbole. Let's try something different. Instead of me repeating myself multiple times, you just read it as many times as you need. No shame in that. I've watched the Dirty Dozen about 20 times, and pick up new stuff each time. Not my fault you can't seem to articulate your own notions. Either that or you haven't thought them out well enough. But perhaps we can come back to the weird notion you have that you don't mind, don't care, or don't know when someone is lying to you. What you do seem to repeat is the notion of "they all do it". All politicians lie. Ok, we agree on that. Some are worst than others, this one is the worst ever. This is something that doesn't have to be relegated to opinion or feeling. With this moron it's quantitatively and qualitatively different and there's no comparison. He is the absolute worst ever. Now do you consider any of that "mindless hyperbole"? Because we can delve into it and find the facts to bolster it.
I'm under no illusion that I'm obligated to get you, or anyone to understand what I'm saying. If you're interested, the onus is on you. I'm pretty sure the least disinterested person can figure out by now I have no interest whatsoever in dissecting your opinion of why you think Trump is the all-time biggest liar, when you have zero direct interaction with him. Just so I'm clear, I do care if someone I interact with lies. Take Vile for instance. He came on here a few days ago, and claimed his site was busier than this one. He knows full well that is not true, I know it's not true, and YOU know it's not true. How would you classify his lie? |
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Post by bostondave on Mar 22, 2020 21:06:22 GMT -8
Not my fault you can't seem to articulate your own notions. Either that or you haven't thought them out well enough. But perhaps we can come back to the weird notion you have that you don't mind, don't care, or don't know when someone is lying to you. What you do seem to repeat is the notion of "they all do it". All politicians lie. Ok, we agree on that. Some are worst than others, this one is the worst ever. This is something that doesn't have to be relegated to opinion or feeling. With this moron it's quantitatively and qualitatively different and there's no comparison. He is the absolute worst ever. Now do you consider any of that "mindless hyperbole"? Because we can delve into it and find the facts to bolster it.
I'm under no illusion that I'm obligated to get you, or anyone to understand what I'm saying. If you're interested, the onus is on you. I'm pretty sure the least disinterested person can figure out by now I have no interest whatsoever in dissecting your opinion of why you think Trump is the all-time biggest liar, when you have zero direct interaction with him. Just so I'm clear, I do care if someone I interact with lies. Take Vile for instance. He came on here a few days ago, and claimed his site was busier than this one. He knows full well that is not true, I know it's not true, and YOU know it's not true. How would you classify his lie? You're shimmying now. Shake and bake. You care if someone you interact with lies. Well it could be said you interact with Traitor. Or perhaps it can be said he interacts with you. Especially right now it should be in sharp contrast just how his lying can "interact" with you. His decisions, right now in this crisis, affects everyone in America and perhaps beyond. So if you should care about anybody lying to you it should be this person this time during this crisis.
But what it seems you're shimmying from is defending your indefensible position that "they're all the same". No they're not. This guy is far far worse and there are quantitative and qualitative measures to that. No guesswork or opinion. Hard empirical data. You see he makes it easy because he seems to need to splurt out his inner thoughts. Invariably on Twitter. So that leaves somewhat of an eternal record. When not Twitter he does it on television. Same thing, that's immortalized forever - or for as long as there is an earth civilization. So you said something about "mindless hyperbole". What's mindless or hyperbole with stating this guy is the worst by far. It's not only the number of lies but it's the type of lies that show a mental disorder, like pathological lying. So lets please finish this point before moving forward. Or sideways.
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