Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 27, 2020 4:39:01 GMT -8
Tip O'Neal comes to mind - especially as a great counterpart to Reagan.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 27, 2020 5:21:04 GMT -8
any man whom lays claim to such a vision is OK by me....,  |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 27, 2020 6:18:13 GMT -8
Like him or not, it would be pretty hard not to put FDR on the list.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 27, 2020 6:44:14 GMT -8
Like him or not, it would be pretty hard not to put FDR on the list. Agree, sometimes a good leader can have policy views i do not necessarily agree with. There is no question today looking back I am not a fan of all the "New Deal" entitlements, however at the time there may have been more rhyme and reason. I enjoy looking back on history but am not done to believe I should rewrite it. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 27, 2020 8:04:04 GMT -8
Depends on your definition of "good".
If you are using it to mean effective at getting others to follow, then FDR, Kennedy, Clinton & Obama would qualify.
If you using it to mean they led in the correct direction, I believe that list pars down to just Kennedy. FDR did all the wrong things and prolonged the Great Depression. Clinton had faithful followers, but the good things done during his terms were led by Newt Gingrich (Clinton was smart enough to go along). The changes Obama enacted created bigger problems and like FDR, his policies prolonged the Recession of 2008.
It is easy to forget that Hitler was an extremely effective leader, he just wasn't good.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 27, 2020 8:55:47 GMT -8
Depends on your definition of "good". If you are using it to mean effective at getting others to follow, then FDR, Kennedy, Clinton & Obama would qualify. If you using it to mean they led in the correct direction, I believe that list pars down to just Kennedy. FDR did all the wrong things and prolonged the Great Depression. Clinton had faithful followers, but the good things done during his terms were led by Newt Gingrich (Clinton was smart enough to go along). The changes Obama enacted created bigger problems and like FDR, his policies prolonged the Recession of 2008. It is easy to forget that Hitler was an extremely effective leader, he just wasn't good. Good catch. Improved his country with his leadership. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 27, 2020 9:45:03 GMT -8
FDR did all the wrong things and prolonged the Great Depression. While that may arguably be true, it's not the only item on his resume. He led this country through World War II, at a time of economic and emotional depression, against perhaps the greatest threat to our way of life we've ever known. A great leader is someone who says the right thing when his people need to hear it the most. For that alone he belongs on the short list. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 27, 2020 10:09:13 GMT -8
According to Morgan Freeman er, Milton Friedman, there is definitely a need for a government cash infusion in times of economic crisis. Both liberals and conservatives agree.
liberals, however, don’t want to turn off the faucet and conservatives see it as only a kick-start until the economy rebounds. It remains to be seen if Trump agrees or disagrees with Friedman, but administrations since Reagan and his “supply-side” practices, have tended towards too much government intervention into the marketplace, typically well past the actual crisis.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 27, 2020 11:13:10 GMT -8
FDR did all the wrong things and prolonged the Great Depression. While that may arguably be true, it's not the only item on his resume. He led this country through World War II, at a time of economic and emotional depression, against perhaps the greatest threat to our way of life we've ever known. A great leader is someone who says the right thing when his people need to hear it the most. For that alone he belongs on the short list. I agree, FDR was an effective leader, he was able to get people to follow him to the point of electing him to unprecedented 3rd and 4th terms. However, in addition to the New Deal, there were other failings that make his leadership not good for the country. His lack of preparedness assisted the Japanese ability to pull off the "surprise" attack on Pearl Harbor. It is tough to give him credit for leading the country through the 1930's, when the economic problems were being exasperated by his policies, kind of like the arsonist showing up to put out a house-fire he was responsible for. The fact that he didn't think anyone else could do the job, that he refused to pass the Presidency on to another person is a huge leadership issue. The problem with FDR's leadership was the path he led people down and his failure to turn over the reins. He could get people to follow him, he did it in a way they felt comforted, but he did the wrong things over & over. His leadership was based more on his personality than his competency.. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 27, 2020 12:20:46 GMT -8
His leadership was based more on his personality than his competency.. Then absolutely the same could be said of John Kennedy. His body of work as president is almost nonexistent, and his personality flaws were numerous, from his sex addiction to his dependence on drugs. But he had a way of captivating people that at the same time comforted them and energized them. FDR did the same. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 27, 2020 12:58:38 GMT -8
His leadership was based more on his personality than his competency.. Then absolutely the same could be said of John Kennedy. His body of work as president is almost nonexistent, and his personality flaws were numerous, from his sex addiction to his dependence on drugs. But he had a way of captivating people that at the same time comforted them and energized them. FDR did the same. I agree with Kennedy and my observation is, the question isn’t just about good democrat president leaders. i understand he gained the capacity to be a leader in the Navy and, despite not agreeing with all of his positions (on organizing labor, for example), I think he led during his time as a U.S. Representative, a U.S. Senator and, then, as President. one argument others might have against him being a leader is, he was “handled” by his father. But to me, a leader doesn’t dismiss his handlers, a leader knows to whom they should listen and when. Kennedy knew that. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 27, 2020 14:10:15 GMT -8
Then absolutely the same could be said of John Kennedy. His body of work as president is almost nonexistent, and his personality flaws were numerous, from his sex addiction to his dependence on drugs. But he had a way of captivating people that at the same time comforted them and energized them. FDR did the same. I agree with Kennedy and my observation is, the question isn’t just about good democrat president leaders. i understand he gained the capacity to be a leader in the Navy and, despite not agreeing with all of his positions (on organizing labor, for example), I think he led during his time as a U.S. Representative, a U.S. Senator and, then, as President. one argument others might have against him being a leader is, he was “handled” by his father. But to me, a leader doesn’t dismiss his handlers, a leader knows to whom they should listen and when. Kennedy knew that. As a young teenager during Kennedy's presidency, I was all in, Now, not so much. I still look favorably on him, but he abandoned the Bay of Pigs fighters, who were trained by us. If he had come to their aid, there would have been no Cuban Missile crisis, and (as I believe) no assassination. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 27, 2020 14:14:07 GMT -8
Again, I was too young to know the details, but I remember my staunch Republican father thought highly of Democratic Congressman Richard T. Hanna (CA 34th district).
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 27, 2020 18:11:42 GMT -8
I agree with Kennedy and my observation is, the question isn’t just about good democrat president leaders. i understand he gained the capacity to be a leader in the Navy and, despite not agreeing with all of his positions (on organizing labor, for example), I think he led during his time as a U.S. Representative, a U.S. Senator and, then, as President. one argument others might have against him being a leader is, he was “handled” by his father. But to me, a leader doesn’t dismiss his handlers, a leader knows to whom they should listen and when. Kennedy knew that. As a young teenager during Kennedy's presidency, I was all in, Now, not so much. I still look favorably on him, but he abandoned the Bay of Pigs fighters, who were trained by us. If he had come to their aid, there would have been no Cuban Missile crisis, and (as I believe) no assassination. I understand your hesitation. i believe leadership is not just about one or even a couple of bad decisions... and the Bay or Pigs was a bad decision, but not just because he abandoned the fighters. Had he stood up against Cuba, like he did to Russia during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I would have preferred it more. That said, however, Kennedy’s leadership competency lay primarily in his ability to get others to go a,omg with him. He energized. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 28, 2020 22:03:48 GMT -8
Thomas Jefferson, Grover Cleveland, and Ronald Reagan (after he left the party).
That's about it.
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