sixthman13
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"A man is never more than a man until he has reached for something beyond his grasp."
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Post by sixthman13 on Nov 30, 2021 11:50:35 GMT -8
Division 2 was a good game at least. 3 and 4 were not. I didn't see 5-14. Then again, it wasn't very good football being displayed across the board. The games that were on the regular season broadcast were superior to the playoffs. I like the old system better. You get a generationally talented team like CDM had a couple years ago, you win and move up. If you are not good you move down. 4th place teams and teams having down years are rewarded with rings. And no one will read the fine print in 20 years. I like an open division, and then regional championships best. There is more interest in a Los Al v MV game and maybe a NH v LH game than these far fetched matchups like Serra v Apple Valley.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 30, 2021 12:03:07 GMT -8
D2 will be very fruitful for the bottom half of Trinity.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 30, 2021 13:35:43 GMT -8
Not many opportunities to empty your bench in the highest level bowl game like this.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 30, 2021 13:42:01 GMT -8
Division 2 was a good game at least. 3 and 4 were not. I didn't see 5-14. Then again, it wasn't very good football being displayed across the board. The games that were on the regular season broadcast were superior to the playoffs. I like the old system better. You get a generationally talented team like CDM had a couple years ago, you win and move up. If you are not good you move down. 4th place teams and teams having down years are rewarded with rings. And no one will read the fine print in 20 years. I like an open division, and then regional championships best. There is more interest in a Los Al v MV game and maybe a NH v LH game than these far fetched matchups like Serra v Apple Valley. The old system where: - League placement determines which division you're in?
- League champs play AL teams which pretty much guarantee first round blowouts?
- Weaker teams in the league have close to ZERO chance of getting in the playoffs?
- Divisions are decided based on how teams WERE instead of how they ARE?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 30, 2021 18:58:42 GMT -8
My hunch is most will be FOR or AGAINST this system on a yearly basis.... I'm holding my opine until I really take a longer look, maybe even another year of it before I really make sense of it all. I think its good in a sense that we play as we "are" not what we "were". But this has led to some crazy outcomes of 3rd, 4th place at larger teams now dropping and mopping lower division winning teams. Just appears or seems strange. Maybe its correct, Im still looking at this in a bigger picture and as I stated, may think about this for another season.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 30, 2021 19:12:33 GMT -8
But this has led to some crazy outcomes of 3rd, 4th place at larger teams now dropping and mopping lower division winning teams. I think you're looking at this wrong, meaning you're looking at it through the lens of historical divisional placements. Teams either dropped down or moved up because that's where they belong based on this year's results. The computer algorithm doesnt care about past history, hype, strength of league, league finish, or should'a, would'a, could'a's. It only calculates who you played, how good they were, and what the result of the game was. I think people are struggling with acceptance because they want a perfect system. Unfortunately, there aren't any. Like it or not, this system is more equitable than anything we've ever had. Just look at the four points in Rick's post just before yours and you'll see how bad the system was that we had before. And the system of the last few years, where placement was determined by what you did one and two years ago, was just as nonsensical. This one may take some tweaking, but it's an excellent start. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 30, 2021 20:22:15 GMT -8
I hope we see the best of play from both the Friars and the Monarchs tonight. * No matter what the outcome, it is a truly a historic night. **This applies to one side and one side only. ** Yes in the sense it was a first, outside of that it was forgettable. Congrats to the victors, left no doubt whom rules the HSF gridiron. Disappointing game that had so much promise at the start. At least this explains why our top RB hardly played on offense the entire game. Tough break (literally). Still, as good as the game plan against Bosco was in the semis, the lack of adjustments and wasted opportunities by the Friars in the finals was as bad on the flip side. Felt almost exactly like the October 29 regular season game versus Bosco. The defense played well enough to keep us in the game through the 4th quarter, yet the offense was just stuck in the mud. Gave our fans very little to get excited about. All that being said, a great season for the Friars. I'd rather have lost the championship game than not been there at all. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 30, 2021 20:24:28 GMT -8
Found out that coaches are the ones on the CIF playoff committee.
Comes down to this...objective or subjective system as the foundation?
When it's objective, there's nothing to bitch about.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 30, 2021 20:46:02 GMT -8
I think one idea would to be rid of leagues.... just like the Calpreps rankings are so you go.... every game in regular season is a just that a game. Things may also shake out better when teams see how this works and we may get more scheduling up as I have advocated from the beginning. Any lower of midlevel division team at 10-0 is likely going to get beat come playoffs by some .500 team that plays at a high SOS level.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 30, 2021 22:29:06 GMT -8
When it's objective, there's nothing to bitch about. You would think so intuitively. However, all the whining and complaining in the last four weeks suggests otherwise. |
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sixthman13
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"A man is never more than a man until he has reached for something beyond his grasp."
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Post by sixthman13 on Dec 1, 2021 10:30:01 GMT -8
So do you believe this year's championships were better than years past? 1. Mater Dei- unavoidable this year. 2. Orange Lutheran- best game of the upper divisions. 3. Serra- typically a division 1 or 2 team and one of their worst teams in the past 10 years. 4. Poly- typically a division 1 or 2 team and one of their worst teams in the last 10 years. 5. Valencia v OC- typically division 1 or 2 teams that had their worst teams in 10 years. 6. Harbor- a 4th place team that went 7-7. 6. Aquinas- wins 66-14. 7-14 same types of outcomes. You really think this is a better system? I think it was the worst year that we have had in my 40 years being around high school football. League champs no longer get home games against 2nd-6th place teams. But after the the first round they employ the old system, not the ranking. It doesn't make sense. The evidence shows that it is worse, not better.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Dec 1, 2021 12:42:47 GMT -8
If you look at calpreps projections in the last half of the year, including playoffs, their accuracy is pretty good. I think they could have done a better job giving 1st place teams home games while still matching the teams correctly per their rankings. I believe that will be fixed next year. That said, it was a pretty neat experience playing at Panish.
When I get a little free time, I'll go back and review the prior years' projections / results to see what the facts show.
Maybe a better discussion is what the expectations / priorities are for a playoff system?
Mine are in this order:
Competitive Equity
Reward the Best Teams
Honor League results
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Post by sixthman on Dec 1, 2021 18:19:26 GMT -8
But you aren't rewarding the best teams and you are punishing good lower division teams by matching them against Serra, Poly, Oaks, or Valencia. You rewarded bad Newport, Loara, and Northwood teams. You punished good Irvine and Yorba Linda teams. I've never seen it where 9-14 was so bad. The system encourages losing except at the very top. Hell, there was even a question whether or not teams even tried to win certain games. In 40 years I have never heard about a team tanking a game until this year it was better before.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Dec 1, 2021 18:52:31 GMT -8
But you aren't rewarding the best teams and you are punishing good lower division teams by matching them against Serra, Poly, Oaks, or Valencia. You rewarded bad Newport, Loara, and Northwood teams. You punished good Irvine and Yorba Linda teams. I've never seen it where 9-14 was so bad. The system encourages losing except at the very top. Hell, there was even a question whether or not teams even tried to win certain games. In 40 years I have never heard about a team tanking a game until this year it was better before. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Let's get back to what you think the priorities should be, and work backwards to find the system that best fits it. Also, if you consider "bad" being W/L, then a team could be the dominant in their league, and then schedule weak teams to get the wins, and be 10-0. In the case of Newport, they scheduled up pre-league, took their lumps, and then again took their lumps being in the bottom half of the Sunset. Are they bad because they weren't competitive in the Sunset, or because they went 1-4 against Yorba Linda, JSerra, Capo Valley, Marina & Trabuco before making a change at QB? On the other hand, HB went 3-2 pre-league against Marina, Western, Aliso Viejo, LB Wilson & El Toro. Were they better than Newport because they were 4-6? Yorba Linda went 7-0 w/ a pre-league schedule of: Newport Harbor Valencia (Placentia, CA) Orange San Juan Hill Chino Hills Esperanza Canyon Does beating that schedule make them "good"? Same question for Irvine, and their very weak pre-league, and in-league schedule. How does grouping them with like-caliber teams punish them? Unless you think the reward of a good W/L record means your should be placed against inferior teams, then I get where you're coming from. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Dec 1, 2021 19:33:00 GMT -8
But you aren't rewarding the best teams and you are punishing good lower division teams by matching them against Serra, Poly, Oaks, or Valencia. I disagree. Matching teams against Serra, Poly, Oaks and Valencia was done because an impartial computer program told us they are of equal quality. That is not a punishment, it's equity. I think you're still struggling to overcome your lofty perceptions of those programs based on their past successes rather than on their quality this year. They just aren't that good anymore and were slotted appropriately. |
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