Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 2, 2021 8:21:40 GMT -8
I'd like to keep the snark out of this, and have an objective discussion.
I struggle to find any meaningful philosophical similarities between left and right, other than the desire to gain and consolidate power.
It seems easy enough to point out & vilify each other for our differences, so I'd like to focus on what we've got in common philosophically. We can leave out the physical traits of converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.
I'm pretty sure both sides want:
Clean air & clean water.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Oct 2, 2021 8:30:07 GMT -8
Maybe separating right/left ordinary people from right/left haters or politicians. Right/left ordinary people believe the way they do because they view an issue from different perspectives, while right/left politicians and haters have an ulterior motive for espousing their view.
Seems to me real people want to reduce or end abortion, but their reasoning for wanting it are widely disparate.
Both sides view religion as useful, even desired, but will vary on how that might manifest itself in their lives.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2021 8:38:15 GMT -8
Looking at these recent polls.... not much and no longer a lot. Kinda blows up your entire thread here Bick!
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2021 9:02:11 GMT -8
We fought a civil war to prove that red states can't "secede" from the union, but there's been no war fought to preclude red states from kicking blue states out on their ass.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 2, 2021 9:29:59 GMT -8
Maybe separating right/left ordinary people from right/left haters or politicians. Right/left ordinary people believe the way they do because they view an issue from different perspectives, while right/left politicians and haters have an ulterior motive for espousing their view. Seems to me real people want to reduce or end abortion, but their reasoning for wanting it are widely disparate. Both sides view religion as useful, even desired, but will vary on how that might manifest itself in their lives. I think there's a clear line of separation regarding abortion between left and right. One side believes the child is something like a non-viable appendage, and the other considers it a viable human with its own rights. To your point though, while both sides may want clean air and water, one side believes it can control the climate as part of the solution, while the other wants to accomplish it thru pollution control measures. I also think both sides are opposed to discrimination based on race, creed etc., but one side has taken that to now include discriminating against anyone who DOESN'T belong to one of those previously oppressed groups.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 2, 2021 9:37:20 GMT -8
Looking at these recent polls.... not much and no longer a lot. Kinda blows up your entire thread here Bick! It's actually encouraging to see there's an acknowledgement that there's such a wide chasm that no longer provides a basis for staying together. And by the way, just because you separate, doesn't mean you can't reconcile down the road. Who knows, it might even make us stronger in the end if we can respect each other enough to celebrate our differences as we once did when making this nation. If we can't, that's OK too. We'll find some common reasons to stay friendly.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2021 9:40:28 GMT -8
or each side waits for one to implode a takes it back over now fully under its control as it declares itself "right" and the ideological winner....
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Oct 2, 2021 9:50:45 GMT -8
Maybe separating right/left ordinary people from right/left haters or politicians. Right/left ordinary people believe the way they do because they view an issue from different perspectives, while right/left politicians and haters have an ulterior motive for espousing their view. Seems to me real people want to reduce or end abortion, but their reasoning for wanting it are widely disparate. Both sides view religion as useful, even desired, but will vary on how that might manifest itself in their lives. I think there's a clear line of separation regarding abortion between left and right. One side believes the child is something like a non-viable appendage, and the other considers it a viable human with its own rights. To your point though, while both sides may want clean air and water, one side believes it can control the climate as part of the solution, while the other wants to accomplish it thru pollution control measures.
I also think both sides are opposed to discrimination based on race, creed etc., but one side has taken that to now include discriminating against anyone who DOESN'T belong to one of those previously oppressed groups.Absolutely, however we have heard both sides expressing a desire that abortions should be rare.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 2, 2021 11:09:20 GMT -8
Maybe separating right/left ordinary people from right/left haters or politicians. Right/left ordinary people believe the way they do because they view an issue from different perspectives, while right/left politicians and haters have an ulterior motive for espousing their view. Seems to me real people want to reduce or end abortion, but their reasoning for wanting it are widely disparate. Both sides view religion as useful, even desired, but will vary on how that might manifest itself in their lives. I think there's a clear line of separation regarding abortion between left and right. One side believes the child is something like a non-viable appendage, and the other considers it a viable human with its own rights. To your point though, while both sides may want clean air and water, one side believes it can control the climate as part of the solution, while the other wants to accomplish it thru pollution control measures. I also think both sides are opposed to discrimination based on race, creed etc., but one side has taken that to now include discriminating against anyone who DOESN'T belong to one of those previously oppressed groups. Step one in understanding the problem might be to not assume you understand the other sides POV...clearly you do not. Is it important that you portray the other side's arguments as ridiculous so you can more easily discard them or do you truly believe that the left thinks it can control the climate? BTW, if you really wanted to avoid "snark" I'd have thought you'd have been a little more respectful than to make up nonsense and claim it's the POV of someone else.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2021 12:15:25 GMT -8
I'd like to keep the snark out of this, and have an objective discussion. I struggle to find any meaningful philosophical similarities between left and right, other than the desire to gain and consolidate power. People in this country have always had political differences, but they have always had more things in common than what divided them politically. They believed in God and went to church. They loved their country, with all its faults,and would die to defend it. Families were a mom and a dad with their kids, and all the other families on the block were the same. Dad worked, mom kept the home running, and kids went to schools where they were taught the 3 R's. All that has changed. Religion, patriotism, the traditional nuclear family, and the roles of parents have all been attacked and undermined. Schools have agendas that seek to indoctrinate children into a specific political and social point of view rather than educating them in skills they need to be productive adults. Even the notion of what it means to be a man or a woman has been cast into doubt. And it has all been done through personal attack and under the guise that if you don't believe in the new "order" you are a racist, a bigot and a bad person. The commonality that used to unite us has been subverted to elevate the things that divide us. If there's a road back from that which doesn't involve the complete subjugation of one side by the other, someone smarter than I am will have to articulate it. Especially since there is little evidence that either side even WANTS to reunite.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 2, 2021 14:55:12 GMT -8
Road back is a war, pick up the pieces like throughout history...
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 2, 2021 15:00:52 GMT -8
It's likely that the only winners in a second American civil war would be China, Russia, Iran and North Korea. That's not a very appetizing scenario.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 2, 2021 15:45:30 GMT -8
I don't think this will come to war, but do think there's enough people on both sides that would be willing to separate from one another.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 3, 2021 4:29:19 GMT -8
I'd like to keep the snark out of this, and have an objective discussion. I struggle to find any meaningful philosophical similarities between left and right, other than the desire to gain and consolidate power. People in this country have always had political differences, but they have always had more things in common than what divided them politically. They believed in God and went to church. They loved their country, with all its faults,and would die to defend it. Families were a mom and a dad with their kids, and all the other families on the block were the same. Dad worked, mom kept the home running, and kids went to schools where they were taught the 3 R's. All that has changed. Religion, patriotism, the traditional nuclear family, and the roles of parents have all been attacked and undermined. Schools have agendas that seek to indoctrinate children into a specific political and social point of view rather than educating them in skills they need to be productive adults. Even the notion of what it means to be a man or a woman has been cast into doubt. And it has all been done through personal attack and under the guise that if you don't believe in the new "order" you are a racist, a bigot and a bad person. The commonality that used to unite us has been subverted to elevate the things that divide us. If there's a road back from that which doesn't involve the complete subjugation of one side by the other, someone smarter than I am will have to articulate it. Especially since there is little evidence that either side even WANTS to reunite. Your views about how it used to be are a fantasy right out of a script for "Leave It To Beaver". We progressed, learned a few things and now we do things differently. We no longer let husbands beat their wives and call it a "family matter". We no longer let people drive without wearing a seat belt because too many people were dying. The role of parents wasn't "attacked and undermined" by anyone, people just decided they could live their lives under restrictions less severe and models which more closely aligned with their desires and goals. People are not forced to endure loveless marriages or abusive relationships as much as in the past and I think that's an improvement...don't you? Change is inevitable. Adaptation is not. You need to get better at adapting to the changes that will continue to come no matter how much you want to run away from them. My grandfather was 13 years old when they invented the airplane and he lived to see men land on the moon. He was convinced that the rockets they sent up changed the weather for the worse. I loved my grandfather but don't think like him. As far as evidence that we don't want to stay together, that evidence comes mostly from angry conservatives, not angry liberals. For the most part I think we're happy to stick around and try to educate some of those conservatives. Carry on.
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Post by mrright on Oct 3, 2021 7:16:33 GMT -8
nothing.
the real goal of the leftist looniverse is turn americans into muslim females
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