Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 21, 2023 9:04:11 GMT -8
In business we have a saying that's you sometimes have to shrink to viability, and then grow from there.
In nature, we have to prune the rose bush in order to maintain the health of the plant. Without it, the plant weakens and ultimately dies.
Fellas, it sure seems like we're at that point.
MDD... You're correct. It won't be easy in the short run, but it's already happening. People who can, are leaving here (CA).
Frog... I'd rather debate the merits of this with you from polar opposite positions than to continue watching our country devolve. I'm confident we would eventually reach a compromise that would be viable. I LOVE the fact we can disagree here - passionately if necessary. THAT'S what our country was built upon.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 21, 2023 9:19:54 GMT -8
People who can, are leaving here (CA). Of course. But what about the tens of millions of citizens across the country who can't? Do we doom them to live in a new "nation" whose every political and social policy is anathema to them?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 21, 2023 9:46:23 GMT -8
This will sound callous, but if immigrants are willing to risk their lives in search of a better life to come here, the choice an American would have to relocate is a FAR lesser ask.
Inconvenient... Yes.
Impossible... No.
Hell, we could set up a red / blue house exchange with those folks trapped in the red states equally passionate about finding Nirvana here in CA.
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Feb 21, 2023 12:07:06 GMT -8
In business we have a saying that's you sometimes have to shrink to viability, and then grow from there. In nature, we have to prune the rose bush in order to maintain the health of the plant. Without it, the plant weakens and ultimately dies. Fellas, it sure seems like we're at that point. MDD... You're correct. It won't be easy in the short run, but it's already happening. People who can, are leaving here (CA). Frog... I'd rather debate the merits of this with you from polar opposite positions than to continue watching our country devolve. I'm confident we would eventually reach a compromise that would be viable. I LOVE the fact we can disagree here - passionately if necessary. THAT'S what our country was built upon. Fair enough.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 21, 2023 12:27:48 GMT -8
I guess it all comes down to whether we think this wokeism is a phase or an illness that we will eventually recover from, or whether it's a permanent division of how we all view everything in life. I've posted before that I no longer have any interest or desire in reuniting with the woke left. I find almost everything they believe to be so bizarre and so offensive that I can't see any common ground for unity. I also realize that a split would cede world hegemony to China, but the way things are going that may be inevitable anyway. Perhaps it's only a matter of how long it will take.
Many other countries throughout history have split and survived. I just don't believe dividing along red state-blue state lines and forcing 150 million people to move is rational or feasible. This is where the discussion always breaks down. I think there's enough intelligence on this forum to imagine other ways to divide (if necessary), but so far we haven't put forth the effort to imagine or discuss them.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 21, 2023 21:21:02 GMT -8
Assuming this split is inevitable, how else would you divide the country, if not geographically?
BTW, it's not as though those who don't subscribe to left or right ideology would be particularly ostracized as in a war torn country like Bosnia, right?
I'm pretty sure other countries that have gone through splits have divided amongst cultural or religious ideologies. Why should this be any different?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 21, 2023 22:21:44 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure other countries that have gone through splits have divided amongst cultural or religious ideologies. Why should this be any different? That's exactly my point. If our differences are political, social or cultural, how does it make sense to instead divide the country geographically?
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 22, 2023 0:53:55 GMT -8
I agree that it wouldn't be easy, and it would take some serious negotiations. Some states may need to be divided, like Oregon where some already want to do that. For my state of Colorado, it would be ideal to split right along the Rockies. Michigan's upper peninsula would be a logical split from Michigan proper, or they could join with Wisconsin. They often talk about forming Wichigan (or is it Wishigan).
That's just a few examples. And yes many people would have a choice to make. Either move to a more compatible state for them, or resign themselves to living in a state that has different values than they have. If Colorado doesn't split, I would have to make that choice. Maybe I'd decide I'm old enough that it wouldn't make sense to go. But I do like St. George, Utah or Lindsborg, Kansas, or maybe Norway, Michigan (Brrr).
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Feb 22, 2023 10:16:16 GMT -8
I really don’t think it’s simple at all. Political opinions are so fluid, hell, even my views change through the years…
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 22, 2023 19:55:11 GMT -8
The kind of differences you and I may have seem to be consistent with the evolution of thought.
What we're witnessing today is a different animal altogether.
In order to make this exercise meaningful, I think we have to identify the clear difference that are incompatible. By that I mean not just as nuisance, but a deal breaker.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 22, 2023 22:35:53 GMT -8
In order to make this exercise meaningful, I think we have to identify the clear difference that are incompatible. By that I mean not just as nuisance, but a deal breaker. I can start with three deal-breakers for me: (1) The notion that a man who identifies as a woman is really a woman, and the entire population of the country is obligated to indulge his delusion and make him feel like he's right, including allowing him to compete against women in athletic events and wiggling his wang in front of young girls in their locker rooms. (2) The notion that teachers and school administrators should guide sexually confused children into hormone therapy and eventually cutting off their breasts or their penises while keeping parents in the dark. (3) The notion that people who never owned slaves, or whose ancestors came to this country decades after all slaves were freed, should be required to pay monetary reparations to people who were never slaves and whose ancestors may have arrived in this country after slavery was abolished. I can't think of three more heinous examples of social ideals whose proponents I can never accept or welcome as fellow countrymen.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 23, 2023 7:01:43 GMT -8
I really don’t think it’s simple at all. Political opinions are so fluid, hell, even my views change through the years… just like sexuality and identity!!
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 23, 2023 7:07:03 GMT -8
In order to make this exercise meaningful, I think we have to identify the clear difference that are incompatible. By that I mean not just as nuisance, but a deal breaker. I can start with three deal-breakers for me: Here is one more.... Can we assume you won't be adding Pantene yo your beauty regime...!
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 23, 2023 7:36:13 GMT -8
I hope the only people who buy Pantene are "transgenders" and the brand goes belly up.
And in response to the title of this thread, if MTG really has balls then she's a man.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 23, 2023 9:53:49 GMT -8
I hope the only people who buy Pantene are "transgenders" and the brand goes belly up. And in response to the title of this thread, if MTG really has balls then she's a man. Not necessarily, there are prosthetics....
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