RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 1, 2019 18:00:46 GMT -8
I remember, MDDad, an argument I got into with Fordama on TOB probably 10 years ago about cosmology, the origin of the universe... ...He is an adamant atheist, a group which alternately annoys and amuses me no end since nobody can prove for certain one way or the other. ...........................Luca I remember that conversation, I jumped in with both feet. I stipulated that since atheism was based on a belief system, something that as of now, could not be proved nor disproved, it should be classified as a religion. Fordama flipped out, adamant that atheism was based on fact while religions were based on belief. When asked to lay out what facts laid the basis for atheism, Fordama responded "What facts lay out the basis that the Easter Bunny isn't real?". In other words, he had none. I then proposed that agnosticism was the most logical belief system because it takes the position that we don't know what we don't know, that it makes sense there is a Supreme Being, but we don't know all of the specifics. Fordama didn't like that either... |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 1, 2019 18:08:49 GMT -8
Then what makes you a Christian? Do you believe God in human form came to earth to live with us and was beaten and killed so all of our sin will be forgiven is someone you worship only twice a year? How do you know what God wants from you if you don't read His word? 1. I believe in God 2. I believe in worshipping God 365 days by the life I lead. 3. That's between me and God. Bick, I would suggest those 3 things make you spiritual (in a positive sense). Non denominational belief in a higher being that you answer to in your daily actions I would say to be Christian, one would follow the word of Christ and his teachings. A bit more structured, more stringent depending on the denomination one adheres to. Both are good characteristics to have in society. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on May 1, 2019 19:09:28 GMT -8
He is an adamant atheist, a group which alternately annoys and amuses me no end since nobody can prove for certain one way or the other. So he carried on regarding the "myths and fairy tales" you referenced that he insisted were a necessary component of any belief in the existence of God. I pointed out to him the obvious: that religion and theism are two different entities, and that if there is not a God then the entire universe must have come together on its own somehow, and I asked him how that was any more logical a belief....Luca I had the same conversation with one of my sons, who is an atheist. (I will have to answer for that, no doubt). I stated that before anything else existed, God existed. God always was, and He created all existence. Then I asked, "Not very scientific is it?"Then I asked him to tell me, if I was wrong, where exactly did the very first building block of all existence come from? "You know," I said, "the very first thing that wasn't created by anyone, and didn't evolve from anything else. Where did that come from? The only answer you can possibly have is that 'it always existed.' " "Not any more scientific than our belief, is it?" |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 1, 2019 21:26:47 GMT -8
Luca and RSM, you can scoff at Fordama's obstinate intransigence all you want. However, you must both sleep more peacefully at night knowing that he and many just like him are teaching most of our children in their formative years.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 1, 2019 22:07:56 GMT -8
Luca and RSM, you can scoff at Fordama's obstinate intransigence all you want. However, you must both sleep more peacefully at night knowing that he and many just like him are teaching most of our children in their formative years. Take heart. There are also more than a few of us in the classroom who are actually doing the difficult and rewarding work of teaching truth--and we refuse to give in to the secular materialist mob, so pray for us. |
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
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Post by tarmac on May 2, 2019 6:17:02 GMT -8
Tarmac, you do indeed set a very high bar. Of the 2.4 billion Christians in the world, maybe only a couple hundred thousand would pass your litmus test. Matthew 7:13-14. The Narrow and Wide Gates. 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Yes. Few find it. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 2, 2019 7:38:55 GMT -8
Luca and RSM, you can scoff at Fordama's obstinate intransigence all you want. However, you must both sleep more peacefully at night knowing that he and many just like him are teaching most of our children in their formative years. Take heart. There are also more than a few of us in the classroom who are actually doing the difficult and rewarding work of teaching truth--and we refuse to give in to the secular materialist mob, so pray for us. Yeah, but the Fordamas of American education have got you outnumbered a hundred to one. You have to start thinking of Servite as the Alamo. |
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
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Post by tarmac on May 2, 2019 8:16:47 GMT -8
Today (May 2nd) is the national day of prayer. nationaldayofprayer.orgI'll be at the one in Costa Mesa. Costa Mesa Fair Grounds Heroes Hall. 6:00pm-7:15pm. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on May 2, 2019 8:21:04 GMT -8
1. I believe in God 2. I believe in worshipping God 365 days by the life I lead. 3. That's between me and God. Bick, I would suggest those 3 things make you spiritual (in a positive sense). Non denominational belief in a higher being that you answer to in your daily actions I would say to be Christian, one would follow the word of Christ and his teachings. A bit more structured, more stringent depending on the denomination one adheres to. Both are good characteristics to have in society. Luckily for me, eschewing the dogma of a particular denomination doesn't disqualify me as a Christian...at least not according to Wikipedia. As to whether or not that's true, I'll leave that judgement in His capable hands v. those here on earth. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 2, 2019 13:43:41 GMT -8
@bick, don't get me wrong, I was in no way trying to place you in a box. I was just trying to answer the question if following those 3 items were the foundation of one being Christian. Nothing in the 3 items you listed say anything about Christ, who is foremost in Christian life.
It doesn't bother me if you consider yourself Christian or not. I was actually trying to compliment you on the way you have chosen to lead your life.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 2, 2019 13:52:25 GMT -8
Take heart. There are also more than a few of us in the classroom who are actually doing the difficult and rewarding work of teaching truth--and we refuse to give in to the secular materialist mob, so pray for us. Yeah, but the Fordamas of American education have got you outnumbered a hundred to one. You have to start thinking of Servite as the Alamo. I consider the parents as the Alamo. I have 3 kids who went through 12 years of public school, whatever attempted indoctrination that was flung their way was balanced daily by a pair of parents who not only talked about conservative & libertarian values, but tried to be an example of them every day. The result was 3 kids who are not overtly political, but whose viewpoints have been to the right of center on most things since they were 18. Ironically, the only liberal niece or nephew I have did go to Servite. He wasn't too far left until college, where he got immersed in liberalism and then later in a government job. He is a pretty sharp kid, one of those kids who believes he is the smartest person in the room, which I believe is the foundation for most liberals - unwilling to listen to alternate ideas because they come from folks they consider to be beneath them intellectually. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on May 2, 2019 14:43:55 GMT -8
@bick, don't get me wrong, I was in no way trying to place you in a box. I was just trying to answer the question if following those 3 items were the foundation of one being Christian. Nothing in the 3 items you listed say anything about Christ, who is foremost in Christian life. It doesn't bother me if you consider yourself Christian or not. I was actually trying to compliment you on the way you have chosen to lead your life. I took it as a compliment. Sentiment doesn't always come through in writing. I refer to Christ and God as one in the same...even though he is the son. Believe it or not, my relationship with Him has actually grown stronger since I ditched the dogma I grew up with. Direct conversations without the interpreters just works a lot better for me. For a while there in my younger years, the interpreters (priests and nuns) were a big reason for me pulling away, and losing faith. After some self-discovery, I realized I never really lost faith in God, but rather the humans that were supposed to be the interpreters of the word. Probably more than you want to know, but thought I'd share anyway. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on May 2, 2019 17:41:02 GMT -8
When it comes to organized religion, I tend to follow the Groucho Marx line - "I'd never join a club that would have someone like me as a member".
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 2, 2019 18:13:07 GMT -8
Interesting last several comments; probably deserves its own thread...."What does it mean to be a Christian?" (talk about a stick of dynamite).
I can say this with absolute certainty: If you affirm the Apostles Creed and have been baptized then you are a Christian. That's the bare minimum. Period.
Good/Bad Christian, denominations, "spiritual but not religious", and how one understands the Church....are other matters altogether, yet of great importance in their own right.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 2, 2019 18:26:12 GMT -8
Yeah, but the Fordamas of American education have got you outnumbered a hundred to one. You have to start thinking of Servite as the Alamo. Ironically, the only liberal niece or nephew I have did go to Servite. He wasn't too far left until college, where he got immersed in liberalism and then later in a government job. He is a pretty sharp kid, one of those kids who believes he is the smartest person in the room, which I believe is the foundation for most liberals - unwilling to listen to alternate ideas because they come from folks they consider to be beneath them intellectually. The student body, parents, and faculty at Servite are considerably more conservative than the surrounding public schools--but that's not surprising given the nature of the school. There is definitely a (small) cadre of liberal-leaning students, perhaps even a few budding SJW's in training. I do my best to instill some humility and innoculate them against the poison of post-modern thought (if you can call it that) and identity politics that awaits them at most colleges and universities. What's interesting is that the most vocally liberal are almost always among the brightest students; there's where intellectual pride worms its way in. The vast majority of students usually don't care to entertain the conceit that men like Washington and Jefferson were frauds because "they owned slaves." |
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