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Post by vilepagan on Jul 14, 2020 2:29:29 GMT -8
I'd be happy to support having Stone serve his sentence if all of the people involved in creating the phony dossier and then spying on Trumps campaign also went to prison.Sorry VP, you don't get to play whack-a-mole on an opponent and then cry foul when it is done to you. This is one of the biggest problems with our system in this polarized world. Unequal treatment under the law. Why is it like that? Why can Democrats lie under oath, get immunity, destroy evidence, etc., and see no prosecution, while Republicans have the book thrown at them for the crime of being too close to Trump, or the alleged crime of lying when the FBI interviewers didn't even think a lie occurred? Stone lied to Congress not the FBI. The testimony of Steve Bannon and Rick Gates was enough to convict him of lying to Congress. Not allegedly lying to Congress. He lied...full stop. Your absurd views about two systems of justice are amusing but not relevant to reality. The problem with you guys and your arguments is they're all predicated on things that didn't happen or things you wished happened. Bill Barr called the prosecution of Roger Stone "righteous"...but I guess he's just blowing political smoke too huh?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 14, 2020 6:14:39 GMT -8
The problem with you guys and your arguments is they're all predicated on things that didn't happen or things you wished happened. That's pretty hilarious, considering it's exactly what "you guys" did during the entire time before and during the Mueller investigation and the Flynn baloney.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 14, 2020 8:29:00 GMT -8
Yet another deflection...congrats MDdad, you're very good at avoiding topics you don't like.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 14, 2020 8:31:55 GMT -8
And you're very good at criticizing people for doing things you do every day.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 14, 2020 8:57:47 GMT -8
Good job MDDad. Good job. Roger Stone still lied and deserves to be in jail.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jul 14, 2020 10:49:47 GMT -8
This is one of the biggest problems with our system in this polarized world. Unequal treatment under the law. Why is it like that? Why can Democrats lie under oath, get immunity, destroy evidence, etc., and see no prosecution, while Republicans have the book thrown at them for the crime of being too close to Trump, or the alleged crime of lying when the FBI interviewers didn't even think a lie occurred? Stone lied to Congress not the FBI. The testimony of Steve Bannon and Rick Gates was enough to convict him of lying to Congress. Not allegedly lying to Congress. He lied...full stop. Your absurd views about two systems of justice are amusing but not relevant to reality. The problem with you guys and your arguments is they're all predicated on things that didn't happen or things you wished happened. Bill Barr called the prosecution of Roger Stone "righteous"...but I guess he's just blowing political smoke too huh? I stand by the unequal treatment statement. Again, the fact that you think that is absurd, makes me sure that I'm right. If you agreed with me, I'd figure I was wrong. Here...let me dumb it down for you. The "crime of being too close to Trump" was a reference to Stone. The "alleged lying to the FBI" was a reference to the Flynn case, not Stone. Try to keep up.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 14, 2020 12:54:36 GMT -8
If a dirty cop plants a gun that was used in a crime on you and then you throw that gun into the river, technically, you are guilty of obstruction of justice. That was the situation Stone found himself in. He was dealing with dirty cops in a political hatchet job and he committed process crimes in dealing with it. For clarity, Stones sentence was commuted, he was not pardoned. The subtle difference in that is an acknowledgement that Stone did what he was accused of, but that it would not serve justice for him to be in jail for a decade. I'd be happy to support having Stone serve his sentence if all of the people involved in creating the phony dossier and then spying on Trumps campaign also went to prison. Sorry VP, you don't get to play whack-a-mole on an opponent and then cry foul when it is done to you. Your analogy of the planted gun is just stupid...no evidence was planted on Stone. No one spied on trump's campaign. If you have an argument based an anything other than wishful thinking let me know. Well, if you don't have the mental faculties to understand the analog already given, then "letting you know" about anything else and hoping you understand even a smidgen of it is the real wishful thinking. And for you to write that no one spied on Trumps campaign is just refusing to acknowledge facts already in evidence.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 14, 2020 14:56:27 GMT -8
Stone lied to Congress not the FBI. The testimony of Steve Bannon and Rick Gates was enough to convict him of lying to Congress. Not allegedly lying to Congress. He lied...full stop. Your absurd views about two systems of justice are amusing but not relevant to reality. The problem with you guys and your arguments is they're all predicated on things that didn't happen or things you wished happened. Bill Barr called the prosecution of Roger Stone "righteous"...but I guess he's just blowing political smoke too huh? Stone lies, Stone is convicted, Stone now has a record. Trump did not change any of that. He only changed the prison time. not sure why woke vile boy has an issue with that.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 14, 2020 21:27:25 GMT -8
Yes, the Trump campaign was spied upon by the FBI and CIA, in conjunction with foreign intelligence agencies (Italy, U.K., Australia). The record is clear on this and not even James Comey denies it anymore.
Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot. Do your research.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 15, 2020 3:18:58 GMT -8
Your analogy of the planted gun is just stupid...no evidence was planted on Stone. No one spied on trump's campaign. If you have an argument based an anything other than wishful thinking let me know. Well, if you don't have the mental faculties to understand the analog already given, then "letting you know" about anything else and hoping you understand even a smidgen of it is the real wishful thinking. And for you to write that no one spied on Trumps campaign is just refusing to acknowledge facts already in evidence. For you to claim that someone spied on the trump campaign is just idiotic. Who spied? Who was charged with a crime for spying? The answer to those questions is...no one. In a huge blow to Trump, the DOJ watchdog found no evidence to support the claim that the FBI spied on his 2016 campaignThe Justice Department's inspector general found no evidence to support President Donald Trump's claim that the FBI spied on his 2016 presidential campaign while investigating whether the campaign was conspiring with the Russian government to interfere in the election, The New York Times reported on Wednesday, citing people familiar with a draft of the report.
The Times article builds on reporting from The Washington Post, which broke the story last week.
Trump has repeatedly and baselessly alleged that the FBI inserted covert agents in his campaign. Trump and his allies dubbed this purported scandal "Spygate."
He has also alleged, without evidence, that President Barack Obama ordered US intelligence officials to tap his phones, a claim the report is also expected to undercut.www.businessinsider.com/justice-department-finds-fbi-didnt-spy-on-trump-2016-2019-11So tell me what facts you have that are "in evidence"....
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 15, 2020 3:20:40 GMT -8
Stone lied to Congress not the FBI. The testimony of Steve Bannon and Rick Gates was enough to convict him of lying to Congress. Not allegedly lying to Congress. He lied...full stop. Your absurd views about two systems of justice are amusing but not relevant to reality. The problem with you guys and your arguments is they're all predicated on things that didn't happen or things you wished happened. Bill Barr called the prosecution of Roger Stone "righteous"...but I guess he's just blowing political smoke too huh? I stand by the unequal treatment statement. Again, the fact that you think that is absurd, makes me sure that I'm right. If you agreed with me, I'd figure I was wrong. Here...let me dumb it down for you. The "crime of being too close to Trump" was a reference to Stone. The "alleged lying to the FBI" was a reference to the Flynn case, not Stone. Try to keep up. Sure...you were talking about Flynn while everyone else was talking about Stone...I believe that. Try to keep up yourself. No comment about Barr's statement?
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 15, 2020 3:24:28 GMT -8
Yes, the Trump campaign was spied upon by the FBI and CIA, in conjunction with foreign intelligence agencies (Italy, U.K., Australia). The record is clear on this and not even James Comey denies it anymore. Anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot. Do your research. Did you even watch the video you posted? Talk about being an idiot.... Tell me genius...who was charged with spying on the trump campaign? What was the outcome of their trial?
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 15, 2020 14:56:41 GMT -8
So tell me what facts you have that are "in evidence".... Your post plus the definition of the verb "spy" spy /spī/
verb
past tense: spied; past participle: spied
work for a government or other organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.When the investigation started, the Trump campaign was not notified. The information was collected secretly. Hence, the FBI spied upon the Trump campaign.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 15, 2020 21:21:38 GMT -8
The FBI obtained multiple FISA warrants on Trump campaign personnel ( Carter Page and possibly others) through the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. That's all in the public record. Surveillance, i.e., spying. Of Carter Page, CBS News reported the following in January 2020: The Justice Department has concluded that it should have ended its surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser earlier than it did because it lacked "insufficient predication" to continue eavesdropping, according to an order made public Thursday by the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
The FBI obtained a warrant in 2016 to eavesdrop on former Trump national security aide Carter Page on suspicions that he was secretly a Russian agent. The Justice Department renewed the warrant three times, including during the early months of the Trump administration.
In an order made public Thursday, the court's chief judge, James Boasberg, said the Justice Department informed the court last month that two of the four applications were invalid because "there was insufficient predication to establish probable cause to believe that (Carter) Page was acting as an agent of a foreign power."Comey responded to President Trump's 2018 accusation that the FBI spied on his campaign with this tweet: Confidential Human Sources, i.e., spies.
Look up Stefan Halper. According to the Washington Post, "In the summer and fall of 2016, Halper, then an emeritus professor at Cambridge, contacted three Trump campaign advisers for brief talks and meetings that largely centered on foreign policy. At some point that year, he began working as a secret informant for the FBI as it investigated Russia’s interference in the campaign, according to multiple people familiar with his activities." Same with Joseph Mifsud, falsely characterized as a Russian agent, and who was likely connected to Italian intelligence operations farmed out by the CIA.
There is no dispute the FBI spied on the Trump campaign--whatever term you wish to use. Don't insult anyone's intelligence by questioning this. The only dispute--which is at the heart of the Barr-Durham criminal investigation--is if this spying was properly and legally predicated. Do your own research. If that's too difficult, go back over the history of this thread; much of the detail is covered therein.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jul 15, 2020 21:32:41 GMT -8
I stand by the unequal treatment statement. Again, the fact that you think that is absurd, makes me sure that I'm right. If you agreed with me, I'd figure I was wrong. Here...let me dumb it down for you. The "crime of being too close to Trump" was a reference to Stone. The "alleged lying to the FBI" was a reference to the Flynn case, not Stone. Try to keep up. Sure...you were talking about Flynn while everyone else was talking about Stone...I believe that. Try to keep up yourself. No comment about Barr's statement? Did you ride the short bus to school? My post compared Democrats (plural) to Republicans (plural). (HINT:) Here's how you can tell... there's an "s" at the end of the words "Democrats" and "Republicans" in that post. If that doesn't tip you off, there's the word "them" in the phrase, "while Republicans have the book thrown at them..." And, as I've said before, if you doubt my word, on that or any other matter...I'll still sleep well tonight. As to AG Barr, of whom you now are seemingly a fan, he is entitled to his opinion, but I doubt he made any defense of the jury forewoman, and/or the failure to declare a mistrial because of that.
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