Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 2, 2019 10:49:15 GMT -8
The participation rate for HS football has been on the decline steadily over the past 5 years. We've heard varying reasons for this ranging from head injury concern to it being too demanding.
We've discussed the recent wide competition gap at the top end, but that only impacts a relatively small # of teams. I think you can add other sport options, like lacrosse and rugby, that might be siphoning off some of the football guys.
My sense is there is a pretty wide range between schools regarding the level of participation decline over the past 5 years. I think that speaks more into the lack of continuity of the programs with the amount of turnover at the head coaching level than anything else. That and demographics in the surrounding area of school aged boys. It seems that the greater the churn at the HC level, the less appealing it is to play. It don't this with any certainty, but I'm guessing the number of players in the Servite program has declined more than the Mater Dei or JSerra program over the past 5 years.
On a more global scale, I think there may be a wussification of HS boys going on to a greater extent than in the past...especially in CA. The latest law passed by our alphabet loving governor reducing the live hitting during practice by 2/3 beginning 2021, is pretty much a flat out assault on football.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Aug 2, 2019 10:57:47 GMT -8
The game is played at such an intense level in skill and size that it all but eliminates any hope of 99.9% of kids really having a chance to go far in the sport. In my day you played to have the experience and be with your friends, that is all but gone and the majority of the public schools now are left with lack luster programs and athletic student body for such a sport, the best talent has coallesed forming super teams and by watching those the casual high school participant quickly realizes its a bad sport to knock heads for little reason or outcome. Leave it to the best, those whom possibly have a future in it. And ya, wussification!
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 2, 2019 11:23:54 GMT -8
What's the change been in participation at CDM in the past few years? Los Al has about 20-30 more than when Fenton arrived 3 years ago.
What I've noticed, is the BS factor that the coaches have to put up with from the administrators / parents has grown by a pretty big factor in the past 10-15 years. I think that has a lot to do with the HC turnover in the public schools. How much BS would I put up with for the opportunity to work for $0.25/hour on top of my regular job?? Not a whole helluva a lot. Probably why I have coaches in pretty close to the same esteem as I have first responders.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Aug 2, 2019 11:27:47 GMT -8
Good topic, Bick.
Absent an enormous sociological study, it’s anyone's guess as to what the primary cause for the drop off is. There are a number of candidates and the safest response is to say that it is "multifactorial", as we like to say in the trade.
1). My guess would be the wussification that you refer to. This seems to have developed fairly recently and rapidly. Two of my sons played for Jim Hartigan, possibly the apotheosis of an OC hardass, uncompromising and old school HSFB HC. He wore down more kids than I can remember over the course of their high school careers. One of the best X and O's coaches I’ve seen at this level but he would eventually run out of talent. Different kids are motivated in different ways and the most successful coaches know how to use carrot and stick. But too many kids are emotionally unprepared to handle even the suggestion of a stick.
The wussification extends to parents and not just the kids. One of my sons attributes playing for Coach Hartigan to getting him through Ranger training, but at one point he was ready to throw in the towel too. I told him he was in HS for academics and that I was tired of hearing him whine, if he didn’t want to play football there was always coed volleyball. He kept playing. I think my response would have been typical for the time and that was only 20 years ago. Today I think most parents would be inclined either pull their kid or to contact the principal and start a petition to replace the HC.
2). The publicity over recurrent concussions and CTE has played some role, especially for the marginally athletic kids who are not that big and whose parents see them - correctly - as more at risk for injury.
3). Athletic alternatives such as lacrosse that still offer the outlet for physical aggression and, if you will, machismo projection but do not require 11.5 months/year of weight lifting and practice.
4). Video gaming. I don't know your guys' experience but I am increasingly concerned about the nonproductive time spent by kids playing on their computers. It seems almost like a drug in reducing motivation.
5). I would think that demographics would affect individual programs over time but alone is not sufficient to substantially reduce state or city wide participation, at least to the degree that we have seen.
It looks like I’ve wussed out myself and gone with "multifactorial."………………………………Luca
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Post by ProfessorFate on Aug 2, 2019 14:46:25 GMT -8
My sense is there is a pretty wide range between schools regarding the level of participation decline over the past 5 years. I think that speaks more into the lack of continuity of the programs with the amount of turnover at the head coaching level than anything else. That and demographics in the surrounding area of school aged boys. It seems that the greater the churn at the HC level, the less appealing it is to play. It don't this with any certainty, but I'm guessing the number of players in the Servite program has declined more than the Mater Dei or JSerra program over the past 5 years. Servite fielded 55 players on its frosh team last season. Servite and Mater Dei were the only Trinity League teams to vote against the elimination of freshman reserve teams in 2017, so I'm guessing they still felt they had high enough numbers for two frosh teams.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Aug 2, 2019 15:23:54 GMT -8
What I've noticed, is the BS factor that the coaches have to put up with from the administrators / parents has grown by a pretty big factor in the past 10-15 years. I think that has a lot to do with the HC turnover in the public schools. I can tell you that head coaches who have been at the same high school for 31 years and won four national championships have to put up with just as much B.S. from administrators and parents as short-timers at public schools. I've been told repeatedly what has changed the most in high school football is the unbelievable increase in the assholiness of parents who feel entitled.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Aug 2, 2019 16:34:48 GMT -8
You mean "assholeness"?
"Assholiness" sounds simultaneously paradoxical and sacrilegious.
I suppose if you tripped and wound up sitting in the holy water font in the baptistery it would result in a form of assholiness, but we digress.................
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 2, 2019 19:23:23 GMT -8
Luca - between your apotheosis and MDDad's assholiness (ASSume that's what you call the pope when he's being a jerk?), and don't know whether to crap or go blind.
This is better than The Learning Channel.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Aug 2, 2019 20:28:44 GMT -8
Ass-Holiness_Highness !!!
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Aug 6, 2019 5:33:46 GMT -8
Supposedly 22 kids came out for Freshman ball @ El Toro. Ouch.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Aug 6, 2019 6:33:26 GMT -8
Supposedly 22 kids came out for Freshman ball @ El Toro. Ouch. I think this just speaks into the other options argument when a program is not as solid as another. I asked a couple coaches I know at Western and Cypress, and their numbers are up 20-30 from where they started 4-5 years ago. The more I think of it, the more I believe this is primarily a function of other choices, not unlike ratings decline of network television when cable came into the fold. Greater competition for enrollment causes programs to up their game to remain viable, just as it does in business. The better programs will attract more participants than the programs that fail to maintain a higher operating level. What this does, is exacerbate the competitive gap between the programs.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Aug 6, 2019 7:28:23 GMT -8
Wow, and ET once a powerful and proud football program.
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Post by ocsportsfan on Aug 6, 2019 19:51:20 GMT -8
ET Frosh team has 28 kids and supposedly 2 more are signing up. According to what I hear they will definitely have a team just may not be very good
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