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Post by vilepagan on Oct 6, 2019 14:32:34 GMT -8
Like I said earlier, if attacking the media is your best strategy for defending trump, I think you will ultimately fail to sway many people with that argument.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 6, 2019 14:38:22 GMT -8
Do you think that the Republicans in the Senate will be more objective than the Republicans here in their evaluation of the evidence?
And,
What do you make of trump's calls for China to investigate the Bidens?
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,261
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 6, 2019 14:48:50 GMT -8
Like I said earlier, if attacking the media is your best strategy for defending trump, I think you will ultimately fail to sway many people with that argument. Like I said earlier, if my distrust of the Media based on their previous actions makes you believe I am defending Trump, then you are biased. Noting the Media's failures is neither an attack on them nor a defense of Trump. To come to that conclusion shows a perspective that is not rooted in reality.
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,296
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Post by Luca on Oct 6, 2019 16:28:18 GMT -8
Do you think that the Republicans in the Senate will be more objective than the Republicans here in their evaluation of the evidence? And, What do you make of trump's calls for China to investigate the Bidens? 1). What evidence? 2). Any possibly illegal behavior by the Bidens (as for anyone else) in China should be investigated, not that either of us would put a great deal of faith in what the Chinese legal system produces. But an American president should not be publicly urging a foreign government to investigate political opponents. If an investigation is legitimate it should be handled through normal channels. It's beyond inappropriate, it's bizarre......................................................Luca
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SK80
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Posts: 7,273
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Post by SK80 on Oct 6, 2019 18:34:53 GMT -8
Lets look at last 4 Presidents.
Clinton- media protected. Bush- media target. Obama- media protected. Trump- media target.
See any pattern here?
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 19:37:40 GMT -8
The two funniest lines on this thread in the last 24 hours: BTW, you may be impressed, but simply asking "what is he hiding" is not making an argument.
I agree. So what you're saying is that any accusation deserves some sort of "investigation"?
(That is, simply making an accusation against someone--like what has happened to Joe Biden--is not enough to justify an investigation.) And this is stated on a thread whose topic is precisely about an investigation arising from an accusation. Folks, you can't even make this stuff up if you tried.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 20:34:52 GMT -8
2). Any possibly illegal behavior by the Bidens (as for anyone else) in China should be investigated, not that either of us would put a great deal of faith in what the Chinese legal system produces. But an American president should not be publicly urging a foreign government to investigate political opponents. If an investigation is legitimate it should be handled through normal channels. It's beyond inappropriate, it's bizarre......................................................Luca Has anybody considered the likelihood that Trump was simply goading the media, while simultaneously drawing attention to real questions about Joe and Hunter Biden's dealings with China? Remember when Trump said in July 2016 regarding Hillary Clinton's deleted emails: "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."Does anyone seriously think China has any interest in helping get Donald Trump re-elected, when he has done more to hold China accountable for unfair trade practices than any President in living memory? The idea that Trump's so-called "request" of China constitute some sort of crime or "impeachable offense" is laughable--and shows why hardly anyone take the media seriously anymore. This is yet another case of how Trump is heard by different people. Those who hate Trump take him literally but not seriously; his supporters, on the other hand, take him seriously but not literally. (His call to 'build the wall' was the first and best example of this truism.) Thus, the media's fixation on Trump "calling on China to investigate Trump," while being completely incurious about what Trump is calling attention to--the Bidens' shady dealings in the same country. No one who backs Trump imagines that he and Xi are secretly colluding to cook up some sort of false charges against Joe Biden. [Please!] What they do see, however, is Trump calling out Biden and Xi as members of the same corrupt system and making them both squirm. He's sticking it in Joe Biden's eye (as is richly deserved) and will take no prisoner's in striking back against those who have been calling for his own head since the night of November 8, 2016. If people don't like Trump's tone, then--as you said already--they can take their recourse at the ballot box in 2020. Marco Rubio--of all people--hit the nail on the head on this "request" that Trump made to China:
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 21:06:04 GMT -8
This might present a problem for some people (well, one person) on this thread, but Joe Biden is calling for an investigation of his political opponent. (cue ominous voices and furrowed brows from Anderson Cooper, Jake Tapper, Don Lemon, and Lawrence O'Donnell)
The outrage! Biden hasn't even been elected President yet and he's already committed an "impeachable offense."
I might need smelling salts.....
Biden: 'Trump deserves to be investigated'
Now some might say that Biden--unlike Trump--was not calling upon a foreign government to investigate his political opponent, so therefore Biden's call for an investigation into Trump's call for an investigation is perfectly okay.
Just so we're clear: if your political opponent is accused of engaging in corruption domestically it's okay to call for an investigation into such activity (as Biden has done). However, if your political opponent is accused of engaging in corruption in another country, calling for an investigation of this person that would necessarily require the cooperation of said foreign country (as Trump has done) is totally unacceptable and might even be an impeachable offense.
Got it.
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,261
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 6, 2019 21:21:29 GMT -8
Lets look at last 4 Presidents. Clinton- media protected. Bush- media target. Obama- media protected. Trump- media target. See any pattern here? Heck, why stop at the last 4? Bush I - media target (remember the "wimp factor" cover of Newsweek) Reagan - media target (nothing but a dumb acor, puppet of a president) Carter - media protected (they said they had polls weeks before the 1980 election with Carter winning) Ford - media target Nixon - MAJOR media target Johnson - media protected (the things Johnson said & did never got reported at the time) Kennedy - MAJOR media protected (a man with potential was christened a great president because he was young, good looking and assassinated) My entire life, the media has been partisan, yet vile pagan claims I am "attacking" the press and "defending "Trump" for pointing it out.
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 22:42:48 GMT -8
Correcting, perhaps, the title of this thread, the real outrage from D.C. over Trump and Ukraine is not so much about Joe Biden--but, instead, is directed at the mortal threat Donald Trump represents to the corrupt business-as-usual system of influence peddling that has been operating for a long, long time out of Washington. Biden is just one of the more pungent examples of this.
Just to see how silly this whole outrage over Trump and Ukraine is, consider the fact that the Vice-President does nothing except at the behest of the President. So maybe Trump, in calling for attention to be paid to Biden's dealings in Ukraine and China, should have simply called for an investigation into Barack Obama--Biden's boss at the time. And since Obama is no longer a possible "political opponent' of Trump, then I'm sure the media and the Democrats would have had no objections to such an inquiry.
Ya think?
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 22:57:22 GMT -8
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 6, 2019 23:11:16 GMT -8
Joe Biden: corrupt...and a liar.
But the Obama-Biden administration did work--in conjunction with the CIA and the FBI--to "manufacture lies" against the Trump campaign in 2016. Just Google Joseph Mifsud, Stefan Halper, Carter Page, and George Papadopoulos.
And Bill Barr knows it.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 7, 2019 3:18:42 GMT -8
Probably even illegal.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 7, 2019 3:24:38 GMT -8
Excellent, you agree that simply asking a question isn't making an argument. The NYT in their article followed their question with evidence that supported their argument...can you do that?
No, this in a thread that is about an accusation that is supported by evidence.
Maybe if you stopped trying to make stuff up...
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 7, 2019 3:29:20 GMT -8
Yes. Do you remember that the Russians hacked the servers of the DNC the very next day? I don't suppose you see a connection there.
No, but I also don't think China's desires have any relevance to the question at hand. This is about what trump did, not what China may or may not want.
You seem to be saying that it's alright for trump to ask China for help even though it would be illegal for them to actually help him. Is that it?
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