MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Dec 11, 2019 9:00:02 GMT -8
So, maybe we can get to your purpose of this thread by taking each one separately and figuring out if progressives and liberals believe differently, and if so, how? you’ve already effectively done #14, although, as a guiding principle, I wouldn’t take Obama’s behavior as symptomatic of all liberals all the time. How about #13? 13. America is strongest when our policies protect our national interests, preserve our alliances of free peoples, vigorously counter threats to our security, and advance prosperity through economic freedom at home and abroad. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not get a sense that liber-essives believe in a strong America. For years, it has been my observation that most of them want an America that is more on an economic par, with the rest of the developed world. If "preserving our alliances of free people" means our mutual defense agreements with traditional allies, and if "vigorously counter threats to our security" includes cyber threats, then it could easily be argued that Donald Trump is anything but a conservative, as he has failed in both these endeavors.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Dec 11, 2019 9:12:21 GMT -8
I think 13 & 14 go hand in hand. But then doesn't the question become, how strong is "too strong"? The argument SHOULD be made regarding diminishing returns of resources allocated to becoming stronger v. allowing its citizens to retain a larger amount of their earnings. The other argument could be made about be so strong as to become monopolistic. Now that may not be realistic in a global economy, but it would certainly be a reality for smaller countries. Would we / should we, stop once the "unfair" trade agreements with the larger countries get rewritten? To your second paragraph, isn’t that where #6 comes in?
6. The federal deficit and debt must not place unreasonable financial burdens on future generations.
by that, I mean, virtually... maybe literally NO work has been done to reduce the deficit, not even an attempt to trim the waste. my recollection is, Reagan tried in 1984 by launching the Grace Commission, but their ensuing report was effectively sneered at by Congress who did nothing. I recall other, more minor efforts over the years, but having to live on a budget myself, I get a real sense that I get more money for “A” by reducing or removing what I pay for “B,” “L,” “R,” “S,” and “X.” to your point, I don’t deny there could be such a state as “too strong,” but maybe we are not yet at the point of asking what sacrifice is too much: Maybe the “only” answer is NOT more taxes.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Dec 11, 2019 18:27:33 GMT -8
So, maybe we can get to your purpose of this thread by taking each one separately and figuring out if progressives and liberals believe differently, and if so, how? you’ve already effectively done #14, although, as a guiding principle, I wouldn’t take Obama’s behavior as symptomatic of all liberals all the time. How about #13? 13. America is strongest when our policies protect our national interests, preserve our alliances of free peoples, vigorously counter threats to our security, and advance prosperity through economic freedom at home and abroad. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not get a sense that liber-essives believe in a strong America. For years, it has been my observation that most of them want an America that is more on an economic par, with the rest of the developed world. If "preserving our alliances of free people" means our mutual defense agreements with traditional allies, and if "vigorously counter threats to our security" includes cyber threats, then it could easily be argued that Donald Trump is anything but a conservative, as he has failed in both these endeavors. 1. Doesn't having NATO members up their defense spending make our alliance stronger? Doesn't our "freedom of navigation" policy in the South China Sea (and E. China Sea) make our ties with SE Asian nations grow stronger? Japan is strengthening its military ties with the US in the face of the N Korean threat. The allies are standing with us on the sanctions against Iran (though they aren't happy about it). Our ties with Israel are as strong as they ever have been. Not happy about our treatment of the Kurds however, so I'll give you that one. 2. I'm not sure you and I would have any way of knowing what steps are being taken to combat cyber attacks. It's not in the USA's interest to let the enemies know what we can counter, because they would then change tactics. Let them think, as long as possible, that we cannot stop what they are planning to do.
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Post by captaintrips on Dec 26, 2019 22:46:07 GMT -8
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jan 13, 2020 8:11:54 GMT -8
A man whom believed in, lived by and educated on the principles of Conservatism. Roger Scruton, advocate for aesthetic beauty and conservative British philosopher, dead at 75
Roger Scruton, a conservative intellectual and British philosopher, has died at the age of 75.
Scruton, who had announced last year he was suffering from cancer, was a prolific author, writing more than 50 nonfiction books on topics ranging from aesthetics and politics to wine and music, as well as novels and operas.
An announcement posted to his website Sunday said that he died peacefully after his six-month battle.
He credited his conservatism to witnessing riots in Paris, which he described to the Washington Examiner in 2018:
'I went to Paris after graduating, to France, and I was in Paris during 1968 and I saw what leftism really means. You know it means the destruction of that civilization that I’d come to love and, in particular in France, which was for me and object of pilgrimage, this place of high culture and wonderful literature and this history being at the heart of everything and the beautiful architecture,' he said. 'All that influenced me away from any leftist position and when it came to observing the street battles between the Maoist students and the terrified policemen, I found myself on the side of the latter.'
Scruton, a graduate of the University of Cambridge who started his academic career as a professor of aesthetics at Birkbeck College, London, edited the conservative journal The Salisbury Review for nearly two decades and supported Czechoslovakian academic dissidents against the Communist Party in the 1980s, for which he was awarded the Czech Republic's Medal of Merit in 1993. He later worked at the University of Buckingham, the University of Oxford, and the University of St. Andrews, as well as in the United States, and was knighted in 2016 for his contributions to philosophy and education. He was also honored for his anti-Communist activism by the government of Poland and by Hungary for his commitment to freedom in Europe.
A sometimes controversial figure, Scruton was fired and later rehired in early 2019 by the U.K. government for statements he made in an interview about George Soros and Islamophobia, among other topics.
But, despite a sometimes more skeptical wider audience, Scruton was a beloved figure in conservative circles, even hosting the 10-day Scrutopia Summer School for people who wanted to become immersed in his ideas.
"I think it’s a fundamental part of the conservative tradition that politics is not religion. It’s not the imposition of conformity from above by some sanctified elite, which is essentially the liberal position, but that it’s a form of continuous discussion between diverse and possibly conflicting interests, an attempt to conciliate, to arrive at a solution acceptable to everyone, which requires institutions like parliaments and Congress and so on and a rule of law, committees, and all the rest," he told the Washington Examiner in 2018. "So, it’s about procedure, and it sees politics as aiming to conciliate rival interests rather than to impose conformity."
Conservative Philosopher Roger Scruton Dies at 75 www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/01/12/conservative-philosopher-roger-scruton-dies-at-75/
The conservative philosopher and writer Sir Roger Scruton has died at the age of 75 following a six-month battle with cancer.
“Beloved husband of Sophie, adored father to Sam and Lucy and treasured brother of Elizabeth and Andrea, he died peacefully on Sunday 12th January. He was born on 27th February 1944 and had been fighting cancer for the last 6 months. His family are hugely proud of him and of all his achievements.”
Sir Roger was one of the country’s most prominent philosophers and published over 50 books on aesthetics, politics, and morals.
t.co/d8GID0DUz2
Paying tribute to the Conservative Party cultural adviser, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan said: “…the greatest conservative of our age, has died. The country has lost a towering intellect. I have lost a wonderful friend.”
Writer Peter Hitchens expressed his condolences, tweeting: “RIP Sir Roger Scruton, a man of immense courage, intellect and fortitude, whose loss we can ill afford in these narrow, conformist times.”
While the eurosceptic think tank the Bruges Group said: “Sir Roger was truly one of the greatest conservative thinkers of our age.”
In 2016, he was knighted for his “services to philosophy, teaching and public education”.
In June 2019, Polish president Andrej Duda awarded Scruton the Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Poland for his support of the anti-Communist struggle.
His most recent honour was given by the Hungarian government last month, when Prime Minister Viktor Orban awarded him the Commander’s Cross with Star of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Hungary for the writer’s dedication to freedom in Europe.
Presented from the Hungarian embassy in London, Prime Minister Orban said: “Our dear professor taught us that conservatism is not an ideology but rather the polar opposite of one.”
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jan 14, 2020 13:46:53 GMT -8
“Conservatism starts from a sentiment that all mature people can readily share: the sentiment that good things are easily destroyed, but not easily created. This is especially true of the good things that come to us as collective assets: peace, freedom, law, civility, public spirit, the security of property and family life, in all of which we depend on the cooperation of others while having no means singlehandedly to obtain it. In respect of such things, the work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation slow, laborious and dull. That is one of the lessons of the twentieth century. It is also one reason why conservatives suffer such a disadvantage when it comes to public opinion. Their position is true but boring, that of their opponents exciting but false.” -Sir Roger Scruton
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jan 18, 2020 14:52:25 GMT -8
I've read about this topic before, and it makes perfect sense. Yet another example of liberal penchant for "do as I say, not as I do."
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jan 18, 2020 20:42:49 GMT -8
Aren’t we talking about conservative principles, here?
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jan 20, 2020 12:17:08 GMT -8
I think this fits here in this thread because conservatism places a high value on religion and the transcendent--and in the West this is most closely associated with Christianity. And is even more fitting on this day that honors the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr., who himself understood and affirmed that Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history.
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Post by captaintrips on Jan 20, 2020 13:00:23 GMT -8
I think this fits here in this thread because conservatism places a high value on religion and the transcendent--and in the West this is most closely associated with Christianity. And is even more fitting on this day that honors the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr., who himself understood and affirmed that Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history. Now we'll see a movement to get rid of Martin Luther King day with it's " Christian overtones" by one of these Godless Atheist groups. It will take their focus off " In God we Trust" on our money for awhile LOL
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jan 20, 2020 13:15:54 GMT -8
Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history. I truly wish that were true, but it's also a somewhat Eurocentrist simplification of human history. Jesus Christ means little or nothing to several billion people living in Africa, Asia and Australia.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jan 20, 2020 14:10:50 GMT -8
Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history. I truly wish that were true, but it's also a somewhat Eurocentrist simplification of human history. Jesus Christ means little or nothing to several billion people living in Africa, Asia and Australia. I’m afraid that’s on us: Jesus’ admonition to those who follow Him was...and is... “go and make disciples of all Nations.” the God News is, however, He won’t return for us until everyone has been given a chance to accept or reject, a condition of the spirit we can only know for,ourselves.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jan 20, 2020 20:52:41 GMT -8
Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history. I truly wish that were true, but it's also a somewhat Eurocentrist simplification of human history. Jesus Christ means little or nothing to several billion people living in Africa, Asia and Australia. That's only because the missionary's started at the back of the alphabet & worked forward. Those three A continents are on the schedule...
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jan 20, 2020 21:33:06 GMT -8
Jesus Christ is the hinge and focal point of human history. I truly wish that were true, but it's also a somewhat Eurocentrist simplification of human history. Jesus Christ means little or nothing to several billion people living in Africa, Asia and Australia. As a matter of Christian faith I would assert that my statement stands as the TRUTH, even if billions do not understand it or believe it.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Oct 11, 2021 7:11:35 GMT -8
I saw this meme today, but it reflects a common sentiment amongst center-right Facebook users: In my opinion, We should stop complaining about Facebook practices and comparing them to the Nazis: Facebook users have the privilege of leaving Facebook: Germans, or most of them, did not. If we don't like the rules... or Zuckerberg rules... we can and should go somewhere else (you can find me at MeWe, but I haven't left Facebook)
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