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Post by Oakley on Apr 3, 2020 13:16:12 GMT -8
My answer is, “The Bible is the final authority.” I am not sure why you seem to need me to utter specific words. And I'm not sure why you seem so reluctant to do so. It's like your multiple choice test, yes or no, do you believe all people of all the world's other religions are going to hell? I am interested in your thoughts as well.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 3, 2020 14:59:03 GMT -8
My answer is, “The Bible is the final authority.” I am not sure why you seem to need me to utter specific words. And I'm not sure why you seem so reluctant to do so. It's like your multiple choice test, yes or no, do you believe all people of all the world's other religions are going to hell? I am reluctant when it feels like I’m being baited... and I feel like you’re trying to bait me, here, so you can drop the other shoe. SO, I believe that multiple choice above is clear enough there should be no question: IF they give their life to Christ, Heaven IF they do not, Hell (however one believes Hell exists)
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 3, 2020 15:08:54 GMT -8
And I'm not sure why you seem so reluctant to do so. It's like your multiple choice test, yes or no, do you believe all people of all the world's other religions are going to hell? I feel like you’re trying to bait me, here, so you can drop the other shoe. I have no other shoe to drop.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 3, 2020 15:13:24 GMT -8
And I'm not sure why you seem so reluctant to do so. It's like your multiple choice test, yes or no, do you believe all people of all the world's other religions are going to hell? I am interested in your thoughts as well. OK, although it's not so much thoughts as it is beliefs and feelings. I believe in a loving and benevolent God, one who welcomes into his kingdom those people who lived good, kind, exemplary, giving lives. With that in mind, I can't fathom a God who would doom to hell 80% of mankind because by accident of birth they came into a family that had never heard of Jesus Christ. That's just too bleak a vision for me to accept.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 3, 2020 15:33:57 GMT -8
I am interested in your thoughts as well. OK, although it's not so much thoughts as it is beliefs and feelings. I believe in a loving and benevolent God, one who welcomes into his kingdom those people who lived good, kind, exemplary, giving lives. With that in mind, I can't fathom a God who would doom to hell 80% of mankind because by accident of birth they came into a family that had never heard of Jesus Christ. That's just too bleak a vision for me to accept. According to the Bible, you misunderstand. God dooms no one. Anyone who goes to Hell, goes there by their own choice. We don’t have the capacity to tell God, “no, that’s not how I think it should be.” democrats and liberals do that all the time: “I don’t want to believe in ________, so it isn’t that way.” God laid down the rules. God provided the path to Salvation. We cannot earn it, we can do nothing to merit it, we commit one sin, we are guilty and deserve Hell <hard stop> if there is some other way to Salvation, Jesus went to the cross for nothing. He lived a sin-free life which is the only way to “earn” salvation: No sin at all, ever. He was the only person, ever, who earned free pass into Heaven. But He took the penalty for OUR sin onto Himself: He died so we could have that eternal life. not to be dismissive of your perspective, but what we each do or do not fathom, or want to believe is irrelevant: The Bible is very clear about salvation and that is, Jesus Christ <period> Not Buddha Not Sid Hartha (?) Not Mohammed only Jesus Christ, in whom one can still believe whether or not one calls himself a Buddhist or a Muslim or anything else. now, you also asked about Jews: Jews are the roots of Christians, they do not yet accept Jesus as the Messiah. However, they and everyone alive will get several final chances as time winds down, according to Prophecy. ”What about Jews who have died.” I don’t know.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Apr 3, 2020 16:38:00 GMT -8
if there is some other way to Salvation, Jesus went to the cross for nothing. He lived a sin-free life which is the only way to “earn” salvation: No sin at all, ever. He was the only person, ever, who earned free pass into Heaven. But He took the penalty for OUR sin onto Himself: He died so we could have that eternal life. So you don't believe Jesus' mother was born without "original sin," and led a sin free life?
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Post by vilepagan on Apr 4, 2020 3:05:52 GMT -8
Well, that pretty much covers all religious "thought" does it not?
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Post by vilepagan on Apr 4, 2020 3:07:33 GMT -8
Even your beliefs?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 4, 2020 4:38:03 GMT -8
Dave, have you given much thought to the different interpretations of the Bible that became the foundation of the various Christianity based religions?
Would it also be fair to characterize your belief as unquestioning? For what it's worth, that's the aspect of my faith I struggle with the most, primarily because I don't implicitly trust humans who have been deemed to be experts on faith, and want to tell me how I should live. This is in no way directed toward you, but more a sharing of my past experiences.
Further, I find similarities with what I'll call "alarmists", who prophecize doom if you don't subscribe to their way of thinking, and what you believe. That said, I place a lot more weight on what you believe than I do most of the others, but at the end of the day, it's your faith and I respect it.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 4, 2020 10:13:08 GMT -8
if there is some other way to Salvation, Jesus went to the cross for nothing. He lived a sin-free life which is the only way to “earn” salvation: No sin at all, ever. He was the only person, ever, who earned free pass into Heaven. But He took the penalty for OUR sin onto Himself: He died so we could have that eternal life. So you don't believe Jesus' mother was born without "original sin," and led a sin free life? No, I do not. Nowhere in Scripture does it say Mary was sinless. Only that she found favor with God, and as He showed pretty clearly with the Jews, His bestowal of favor is not dependent on behavior or merit.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 4, 2020 11:01:28 GMT -8
Dave, have you given much thought to the different interpretations of the Bible that became the foundation of the various Christianity based religions? Would it also be fair to characterize your belief as unquestioning? For what it's worth, that's the aspect of my faith I struggle with the most, primarily because I don't implicitly trust humans who have been deemed to be experts on faith, and want to tell me how I should live. This is in no way directed toward you, but more a sharing of my past experiences. Further, I find similarities with what I'll call "alarmists", who prophecize doom if you don't subscribe to their way of thinking, and what you believe. That said, I place a lot more weight on what you believe than I do most of the others, but at the end of the day, it's your faith and I respect it. There is an awful lot in your questions, Bick, so please forgive me if I don’t respond fully to some point or another... I will try to be succinct: I have spent a lot of time researching the various Christian sects and non-Christian cults. Though not so much, recently. I see a marked difference between, let’s say, “Protestants” and “Catholics: Personally, I do subscribe to a more Protestant belief system and I’m aware a lot of the guys here are Catholic, but in terms of salvation, those differences can be significant, but do not change salvation. “You” might revere Mary more than I do, but that won’t keep either of us out of Heaven. We tend to agree on the majors (who is Christ, What is salvation, what or who is God, etc)... and there are only a handful of those majors on which we have to agree IF we are interested in being “Christian.” ALL the rest of it (now this is my opinion) we are free to... and we should argue over... that should be one of our main goals: Intersect our different perspectives and try to come to a Scripturally harmonious understanding... or agree to disagree and walk away knowing we will both still be saved. now, I also disagree with (please: It is not my intent to diminish or insult anyone here) Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientist, and others I call non-Christian cults. These groups might call themselves “Christian,” but at some point in their history (typically when they began), one person became disenchanted with mainline Christianity and invented something like Christianity but without one or more of the “majors” I described above. For example, Charles Taze Russell was basically a con-man selling “miracle wheat” when he became disenchanted with (I believe it was) the Presbyterian church so he left, eventually inventing a god that was vastly different from the God worshipped by Christians, redeveloped the plan of salvation to include works so they (only they) can earn their way to Heaven, formed the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to teach it and finally, the Jehovah’s Witnesses. with these non-Christian cults, they try to pass themselves as “Christian” but their values do not support that claim. Some believe we can each become a god and ruler of our own universe, some believe Jesus was just a man who did not live sin free, some believe God is their genie in a bottle, but not omniscient or omnipotent... all, in some way, replace fundamental beliefs (to a Christian) with manufactured beliefs of their own. We even have Bible passages that warn us about those who come along having an appearance of right, but are actually heresy... teaching false beliefs. <deep breath> to your last couple of paragraphs, the easy parts first: I also have a lot of issues with what you are calling “the alarmists,” starting in the late 70’s with Hal Lindsey who told us we were in the last days, when the Bible is VERY clear about no one knows which, insofar as I understand Scripture, means NO ONE. Eschatology (the study of end times prophecies) is a great interest of mine. Jesus told us there would be signs, Je told us what the signs would be, and those warnings were repeated elsewhere in Scripture.He told us to “be ready.” But he never said “and Hal Lindsey [insert alarmist of your own choosing] will know when.” He said, NO one knows. So, yes, I have an issue with the alarmists telling us “this is the end” because that has always sounded to me like a scare tactic. If the Holy Spirit calls “you,” you don’t need to be scar3d into a decision. The Holy Spirit is sufficient. my beliefs? No, I would not call them “un-questioning.” I am an Elder in my local church and I engage a LOT of people arguing this aspect of Scripture or that aspect of Scripture. We used to have an Associate pastor with whom I disagreed regularly. I question a lot. But the Majors, I don’t question and those might be the “un-questioned” parts. To someone who is not me, looking at me, it probably looks like “blind” or unquestioning faith, but it is so much more than that. It is not blind, but proven... at least to me. Everything I see around me in terms of God being faithful, God answering prayers... all supports and, yes, to me “proves” my faith. As the book of Hebrews says, “now faith is the evidence of things not seen.” i also do not subscribe to allegedly “learned” people telling me how I should live my life, though. I will read or listen to their words, but they don’t impact me until I’ve 1)Heard them elsewhere AND more importantly 2) Looked into it for myself. John MacArthur is a good example. He is a learned Christian man, Pastor and teacher, very know,edgesble, but recently he took on a female ministry leader saying Scripture demands she not teach men and she should be quiet. that is something that Scripture DOES actually say, but it was the Apostle Paul speaking to the first century church: OF COURSE women in the first century should remain quiet. But we’re not in the first century. So I disagree with John MacArthur on that point because I know what (and in this case, why) Scripture says. O.K., epic fail at being brief, but I’m hoping I hit all the points.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 21, 2021 8:51:21 GMT -8
I have two issues with this: Gay Men's Choir That Sang 'We're Coming for Your Children' Rushes to Cover After Pedophilia Accusations
- That homosexuals (or any adult) would sing a song containing those lyrics at all; and
- that some of the members asserting they're coming after our children are pedophiles so could conceivably act on the threat.
In the open letter to the homosexual community, let's include words to the effect of, "...but leave our children alone, don't threaten us, and if you want to be taken seriously, effectively police your own organizations."
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Post by mrright on Jul 21, 2021 11:11:51 GMT -8
they are mentally ill, and should have no say in anything.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 22, 2021 2:02:41 GMT -8
they are mentally ill, and should have no say in anything. I get it...irony, right?
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Post by mrright on Jul 28, 2021 12:12:42 GMT -8
get help
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