MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Aug 11, 2020 12:16:20 GMT -8
Frog, Googleboy continues to become more confused by the minute. If he believes vote-by-mail ballots will not be mailed to voters until a request is received in the mail from every voter, he is out of his mind. That would be the greatest debacle of voter disenfranchisement in the history of man.
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 11, 2020 12:20:24 GMT -8
....vote-by-mail ballots that are mailed to the addresses of every registered voter...dead or alive. Not in this state they're not. In this state you must mail in a request for a ballot. Got any problems with that?
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 11, 2020 12:25:41 GMT -8
Frog, Googleboy continues to become more confused by the minute. If he believes vote-by-mail ballots will not be mailed to voters until a request is received in the mail from every voter, he is out of his mind. That would be the greatest debacle of voter disenfranchisement in the history of man. Hey fuckwit, I believe that the state of Pennsylvania sent me a request for a mail-in-ballot which I filled out and returned. When the ballot arrives I'll fill it out and send it in. You can believe whatever you like, but you don't get to tell others what I believe. As for what you were prattling on about I have no idea....
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Aug 11, 2020 12:44:47 GMT -8
....vote-by-mail ballots that are mailed to the addresses of every registered voter...dead or alive. Not in this state they're not. In this state you must mail in a request for a ballot. Got any problems with that? Well, in the state that 90% of the active participants of this forum live, they are. Gavin Newsom used the State of Emergency Declaration to order ballots to be sent to all registered voters in California, whether or not they requested them. What we are experiencing is vote by mail. What you are experiencing is much more like absentee ballots than vote by mail. In your system, there is at least a modicum of control, where one must request the ballot (like absentee ballots). I'll speak for MDDad in that I believe he has no issues with absentee ballots or requested mail in ballots. His & my issue is with unsolicited ballots being mailed to 20 million registered voters, many of whom no longer live at the address on file with the Registrar of Voters or who are deceased. Do you have problems with a system like California has implemented?
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Post by ProfessorFate on Aug 11, 2020 13:35:41 GMT -8
I don't think that's the real problem as much as the millions of ballots that will be mailed to people who have died or moved but are still in the voter registers. Ballots will be mailed to their last addresses, and they can be completed by anyone living there now, or anyone savvy enough to harvest them. We just got our requests for mail on ballots: One for my wife, one for our newly registered son, one for me... and one for my wife’s daughter who hasn’t lived here since 2014. Yep. We've been trying to get them (Colorado) to stop sending ballots (and jury duty notices) for two of my kids who also haven't lived here since 2013 and 2014. I think they finally got the message for the 2014 one. At least no ballot was sent for the primary. The 2013 kid's ballot still is coming.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Aug 11, 2020 13:37:33 GMT -8
I’m not in disagreement. There’s a myriad of problems that are associated with something so hastily put together (such as this). Five states* have all mail in voting and have for a few years...perhaps you could list some of the myriad of problems they've had in those states. Also, tell me what problems will occur in states where you have to request a mail-in-ballot. *Colorado, Hawaii, Utah, Oregon, Washington See my post above.
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 12, 2020 3:12:47 GMT -8
Not in this state they're not. In this state you must mail in a request for a ballot. Got any problems with that? Do you have problems with a system like California has implemented? It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way.
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thefrog
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Posts: 1,819
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Post by thefrog on Aug 12, 2020 6:11:18 GMT -8
Do you have problems with a system like California has implemented? It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way. Why is it better than making people go to the polls? Covid related? Again, I find it interesting that people are expected and actually conform to social distancing guidelines at super markets and department stores, but as soon as you ask them to vote, those expectations seems to magically disappear.
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 12, 2020 7:39:54 GMT -8
It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way. Why is it better than making people go to the polls? Covid related? Again, I find it interesting that people are expected and actually conform to social distancing guidelines at super markets and department stores, but as soon as you ask them to vote, those expectations seems to magically disappear. Because we don't want to have situations like WI had in their primary with long lines at the polls. Because we don't want people to stay home from the polls out of fear. Because alleged fraud is no reason to catch a deadly disease.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Aug 12, 2020 14:52:42 GMT -8
It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way. Then you have simply not been paying attention. I’ve told you OVER AND OVER, read the articles, not just the headlines. almost all the states permit vote-by-mail. Nothing wrong with that. but the democrats have written their new laws REQUIRING the election commissions in their state to send requests to every home where a registered voter resides... you with me so far? WHICH MEANS, homes where people have moved or died... homes where one guy registered 18 different names, every one of them gets their own request. FURTHER, many of those new laws, California included, allow for ballot harvesting which means precincts provide locked ballot depository boxes around the area so we don’t even have to mail them, we can just drop them into a box on our way to work... a box that can go who-knows-where since no one is protecting it or it’s contents... so Hillary snatches a ballot box, opens it and throws away all the republican ballots or changes them to democrat, puts it back and they get picked up... so, now, someone HAS told you how fraud can happen and the only question is, whether or not you paid attention.
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RSM789
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Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Aug 12, 2020 20:40:42 GMT -8
Do you have problems with a system like California has implemented? It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way. When was the last time you went to a poll? There are multiple checks & balances as you go through the process, witnessed by people from both parties and your vote is included with the rest right there and then, anonymously. Compare that to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of ballots just mailed out to everyone like a Target flyer. No control over who receives the ballot, no control over who fills out the ballot, no control over the ballot getting where it should end up. That is ripe for fraud, from either side. And that doesn't even broach the subject of depending on the post office. If you are so comfortable in the competency of the US Mail, send me $1000 cash in an envelope via first class mail. When I get it, I'll be happy to send you $1100 back. Lastly, let me appeal to your dislike of Donald Trump. Do you really want to provide Trump with a list of people who didn't vote for him? As evil as you find him, don't you think giving politicians access to that information is both wrong & dangerous? Voting is meant to be done anonymously for a reason.
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 13, 2020 3:57:33 GMT -8
It's not the best system but IMO it's better than making people go to the polls. Is there a chance for individual fraud? Sure, but no one has shown how someone might rig the election this way. When was the last time you went to a poll? BLAH BLAH BLAH I voted in the primary election here in PA. Did you understand the question? How would someone rig an election using mail-in-ballots? Your "explanation" didn't go into that...
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Post by vilepagan on Aug 13, 2020 4:01:25 GMT -8
Then you have simply not been paying attention...... so, now, someone HAS told you how fraud can happen and the only question is, whether or not you paid attention. I paid attention but you did not. You answered a question that was not asked. Everyone knows how FRAUD can happen with mail-in-ballots. I asked how the election could be RIGGED using this method and as usual you couldn't read and understand simple English.
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RSM789
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Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Aug 13, 2020 18:12:58 GMT -8
When was the last time you went to a poll? BLAH BLAH BLAH I voted in the primary election here in PA. Did you understand the question? How would someone rig an election using mail-in-ballots? Your "explanation" didn't go into that... Do you want to carry on a conversation civilly or do you need me to bitch slap you some more? Knock off the snark. When you voted in the primary, was it at a poll or was it by mail-in as you described you were going to do in the main election? You are moving the goalposts, you changed the topic from someone committing fraud to someone rigging an election. One does not need to rig an election to show that the methodology of the voting was bad. Rather, showing the opportunity for fraud is enough to make certain methods unwanted and bad policy. Vote by mail is ripe for fraud, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of unaccounted ballots that can be returned by God knows who. That makes fraud easy and difficult to prove. An election can be rigged many ways with mail-in voting. For example, an organization can be put together to have hundreds of individuals "collect" ballots from households who received some addressed to dead folks or previous occupants. Then, rather then destroying said ballots, they fill them out and turn them in as part of their "ballot harvesting" efforts. This would flip any closely contested election to the side more willing to cheat.
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thefrog
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Posts: 1,819
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Post by thefrog on Aug 14, 2020 8:09:58 GMT -8
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