MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 11, 2019 7:54:44 GMT -8
Asylum seekers (which is highly dubious--more likely they just want better economic opportunities, not a reason to admit) or not, without stemming the tide then Texas and other states will end up going to the way of California politically and economically. I don't care what anyone's reason for coming, entering illegally is totally unacceptable and contributes to the general breakdown of law and order that is already weakening our country. This isn't merely about safety or the financial burden imposed by newcomers (as important as those are) but about our national sovereignty. Period. As far as the legal and constitutional grounds the President has for using funds via the Emergency Declaration (a topic hotly debated here), I think this piece by Sean Davis at The Federalist lays out the fact that Trump has the clear statutory authority to do so. It's a long read but convinced me that Trump is not overstepping legal or constitutional grounds. I'm not sure I'd call it a breakdown as much as an application of personal choice and selectivity. There seems to be a growing belief that people don't need to obey those laws they disagree with. And it's not just limited to people -- communities, agencies, organizations and states seem to think they have the right as well. On second thought, maybe it is a breakdown after all.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 11, 2019 8:09:20 GMT -8
Asylum seekers (which is highly dubious--more likely they just want better economic opportunities, not a reason to admit) or not, without stemming the tide then Texas and other states will end up going to the way of California politically and economically. I don't care what anyone's reason for coming, entering illegally is totally unacceptable and contributes to the general breakdown of law and order that is already weakening our country. This isn't merely about safety or the financial burden imposed by newcomers (as important as those are) but about our national sovereignty. Period. As far as the legal and constitutional grounds the President has for using funds via the Emergency Declaration (a topic hotly debated here), I think this piece by Sean Davis at The Federalist lays out the fact that Trump has the clear statutory authority to do so. It's a long read but convinced me that Trump is not overstepping legal or constitutional grounds. I'm not sure I'd call it a breakdown as much as an application of personal choice and selectivity. There seems to be a growing belief that people don't need to obey those laws they disagree with. And it's not just limited to people -- communities, agencies, organizations and states seem to think they have the right as well. On second thought, maybe it is a breakdown after all. That whole “only obey the laws I agree with” thing really got a huge push when the California Attorney General refused to defend the pro-marriage referendum (that the California voters affirmed) when it worked its way up to SCOTUS. I was embarrassed to be from there (but not too embarrassed, I AM living in Illinois,, after all), and outraged that your ELECTED Attorney General refused to do his job because he didn’t agree with Pro-marriage. AND, to make matters worse, you lunatic Governor applauded him!
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 14, 2019 12:54:45 GMT -8
In light of President Trump ordering the grounding of the Boeing 737 Max 8 airliner (because of a crash in Ethiopia), I have two questions for anyone who objects to the President's use of the National Emergencies Act in order to add fencing and barriers to our border with Mexico:
1. What argument in support for the grounding of these Boeing planes does not simultaneously support his reasons for declaring the border an emergency situation?
2. How is the constitutional or statutory authority to ground the Boeing 737 Max planes any less valid than the use of NEA for border security?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 14, 2019 14:01:55 GMT -8
The answer to both those questions seems self-evident. Two Boeing 737 Max 8's have crashed in the last five months for reasons that remained unexplained, but with a serious potential cause being software errors that cause them to go into steep dives. With 350 of them in service, and each carrying about 180 passengers and crew, that's over 60,000 people at risk of death, with about half of them on American carriers.
If this doesn't qualify as an "emergency", immediately grounding them until the root cause(s) are determined and preventing additional crashes and deaths are strongly indicated. Several thousand Latin Americans trying to cross our southern border with measures already in place to stop them hardly seems in the same league as a potential threat or "emergency".
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 15, 2019 5:21:16 GMT -8
I Just read an article from Purdue University about an idea I’ve heard and supported in the past. The only piece to which some might object is the desalination plants converting sea water to fresh water at each end. Since I worked on such evaporators, and because the U.S. base on Guantanamo mas been distilling it’s own fresh water from sea water for decades, I know the possibilities, but others might not.
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Credo (forgot to log in)
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Post by Credo (forgot to log in) on Mar 15, 2019 13:59:04 GMT -8
The answer to both those questions seems self-evident. Two Boeing 737 Max 8's have crashed in the last five months for reasons that remained unexplained, but with a serious potential cause being software errors that cause them to go into steep dives. With 350 of them in service, and each carrying about 180 passengers and crew, that's over 60,000 people at risk of death, with about half of them on American carriers. If this doesn't qualify as an "emergency", immediately grounding them until the root cause(s) are determined and preventing additional crashes and deaths are strongly indicated. Several thousand Latin Americans trying to cross our southern border with measures already in place to stop them hardly seems in the same league as a potential threat or "emergency". I don't disagree with the grounding of the Boeing 737 Max 8's. 60,000 lives at risk is pretty darned important. And just in the past five years there's been roughly 170,000 actual deaths in the U.S. attributed to opiod overdoses, much of which is attributed to heroin or fentanyl coming from Mexico. Sounds like a big problem. Add to that the humanitarian problems cause by illegal crossings, human trafficking, sexual assault of migrants, crime committed by illegal immigrants in the U.S., the cost to law enforcement, infrastructure, and social services.....and it sounds like an "emergency" to me. If the pace of the last several months keeps up, we're looking at upwards of 500,000+ illegal crossings over a 12-month period. Any legal and ethical measure necessary to combat both of these problems has my full support. Fix the Boeings! Fix the border!
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 15, 2019 14:00:50 GMT -8
That energy corridor sounds like a great idea, as long as it provides the same barrier to illegal entry.
That's a "Green Deal" I could get behind.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 15, 2019 21:29:37 GMT -8
You say Beto, I say VETO!
Trump sends rebuke to all 47 Senate Democrats and the 12 navel-gazing Senate Republicans who voted to place obstacles in the way of border security. The absolute best part of today's veto was Attorney General William Barr laying out the legal foundation for Trump emergency declaration. Among the President's words:
Last month alone, CBP apprehended more than 76,000 aliens improperly attempting to enter the United States along the southern border — the largest monthly total in the last 5 years. In fiscal year 2018, CBP seized more than 820,000 pounds of drugs at our southern border, including 24,000 pounds of cocaine, 64,000 pounds of methamphetamine, 5,000 pounds of heroin, and 1,800 pounds of fentanyl.
In fiscal years 2017 and 2018, immigration officers nationwide made 266,000 arrests of aliens previously charged with or convicted of crimes. These crimes included approximately 100,000 assaults, 30,000 sex crimes, and 4,000 killings. In other words, aliens coming across our border have injured or killed thousands of people, while drugs flowing through the border have killed hundreds of thousands of Americans.
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not4u13
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Post by not4u13 on Mar 17, 2019 5:51:26 GMT -8
Few have addressed the big issue here. Congress controls the purse. No President has ever used an Emergency order to OVERRIDE a Congressional decision on funding. Allow Trump to carry forward with this plan sets an extremely dangerous legal precedent. Today the President is doing something you are in favor of, but tomorrow that Emergency order could be for something you don't like.
Our country is built on the foundation of a balance of power whose primary purpose is to prevent a sole authority from taking control of the country.
Everyone here should be objecting to the use of an this executive power on that basis, no matter the reason.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 17, 2019 8:44:48 GMT -8
Few have addressed the big issue here. Congress controls the purse. No President has ever used an Emergency order to OVERRIDE a Congressional decision on funding. Allow Trump to carry forward with this plan sets an extremely dangerous legal precedent. Today the President is doing something you are in favor of, but tomorrow that Emergency order could be for something you don't like. Our country is built on the foundation of a balance of power whose primary purpose is to prevent a sole authority from taking control of the country. Everyone here should be objecting to the use of an this executive power on that basis, no matter the reason. I understand your concern, but also bear in mind what is happening with THIS executive order: Some in congress oppose it, and those are remonstrating against it. my point is, this might or might not be setting a precedent (my opinion, it is not), but we do still have those checks and balances. now, the GOOD part of Congress trying to shut down the president this time, is now we know who the RINO’s are. I have to admit, I am surprised to find Lamar Alexander on that list. I voted for him in the primary some years back.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 17, 2019 21:52:05 GMT -8
Few have addressed the big issue here. Congress controls the purse. No President has ever used an Emergency order to OVERRIDE a Congressional decision on funding. Allow Trump to carry forward with this plan sets an extremely dangerous legal precedent. Today the President is doing something you are in favor of, but tomorrow that Emergency order could be for something you don't like. Our country is built on the foundation of a balance of power whose primary purpose is to prevent a sole authority from taking control of the country. Everyone here should be objecting to the use of an this executive power on that basis, no matter the reason. I completely understand your concern, but if you read the actual statute Trump is on firm legal ground in this case, as even many liberals concede. He is in no way usurping the spending authority of Congress; he is simply using a statute that was passed by Congress itself, and directing funds already appropriated by Congress for validly enumerated purposes. The use of the NEA is not simply a carte blanche to do whatever the President wants; the idea that Trump is setting a precedent that a Democrat could use to restrict gun rights or some other fool errand is, IMHO, a liberal red herring. He is NOT overriding a Congressional decision on funding. This isn't about supporting a violation of the rule of law just because I like the purpose---that's the position that liberals like to take. Please read the following analysis: thefederalist.com/2019/02/19/trump-solid-legal-ground-declaring-border-emergency-build-wall/www.aei.org/publication/the-law-will-be-on-trumps-side-if-he-declares-an-emergency-to-fund-his-wall/If Congress doesn't want Presidents to use Emergency Declarations, then it needs to amend or abolish the National Emergency Act of 1976.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 17, 2019 22:14:51 GMT -8
Credo - I don't think the argument is whether he has the right to do it. The question remains...is this the right thing to do (using the Emergency Declarations because he couldn't get support through normal / will of the people means)?
I remember feeling violated the way Obamacare was passed on Christmas Eve, followed by the reconciliation shenanigans that I somewhat understand. This will have the same flavor.
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not4u13
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Post by not4u13 on Mar 18, 2019 4:26:13 GMT -8
Let's think about this scenario for a moment.
Imagine your favorite and mine, Governor MoonBeam actually ran for President and won. Instead of a Chicken in every pot, he promises pot in every cupboard. He also declares that the nation needs a high speed rail system to defend against domestic terrorism. Citing 911 shutdown of all air traffic, he claims we need a national high speed rail system as a viable alternative. He wins the election by the same "landslide" Trump wins in.
Now, he goes before Congress to get the first billions of dollars as a "down payment" on the High Speed rail. The first segment will be between Eugene, Oregon and Boise, Idaho, two up and coming tech hubs. Congress refuses to fund it, on a largely partisan vote. Moonbeam is not deterred. He refers back to Eisenhower's funding of the National Highway system as a necessary element of our country's defense system. Moving troops and supplies using high speed rail is essential to defending this country from domestic terrorism. It's a national security issue.
Now, how do you feel about his use of the Executive Order to fund his High Speed Rail project? Remember, you hate the idea, but it has a lot of supporters and, after all, it's perfectly legal and he IS the President after all.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 18, 2019 4:57:07 GMT -8
Credo - I don't think the argument is whether he has the right to do it. The question remains...is this the right thing to do (using the Emergency Declarations because he couldn't get support through normal / will of the people means)? I remember feeling violated the way Obamacare was passed on Christmas Eve, followed by the reconciliation shenanigans that I somewhat understand. This will have the same flavor. This congress has lost sight of why they are there in the first place: To represent the will of the people. for years, or decades, Congress has pursued their own will (amass greater power, do the bidding of their handlers-which is to say, whomever has the money, and get re-elected). The will of the people, by and large, is to stop illegal immigration, but congress (both parties) has steadfastly refused to do,anything about it: The simplistic explanation is, the democrats want the illegal and/or the minority vote and the republicans are afraid, if they do something meaningful, it can be used against them. So, along comes a president who, despite all of his personal failings, understands and promised to further the will of the people. While we can argue and discuss his method (building a wall, turning people back at the border, building detention centers...) we cannot deny his intent. congress, unwilling to act, is now in a position to support that intent (which frustrates them that the president IS doing something where they would not), or try to wrest the job THEY ARE UNWILLING TO DO away from the President. given all this, I do not support the use of the Emergency Declaration in this regard, but I DO support someone, in this case, the President doing something to stem the flow of illegals into this country. A side benefit I see is, the frustration this causes those self-righteous, puffed up stuffed shirts in congress.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 18, 2019 8:16:03 GMT -8
He is in no way usurping the spending authority of Congress; he is simply using a statute that was passed by Congress itself, and directing funds already appropriated by Congress for validly enumerated purposes. He is NOT overriding a Congressional decision on funding. I think that's precisely the point. Taking money that Congress has approved for one purpose and using it to fund another pet endeavor of the president is exactly what "overriding a Congressional decision on funding" looks like.
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