RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 21, 2020 19:35:23 GMT -8
In the 'Rewarding the Riot" thread, Vile Pagan defended some of his posts by saying "...I only talk about how stupid people are when they reveal their intellectual deficiencies...". Then in the next sentence, he wrote "...I don't consider gar slurs to be harmless banter, I consider them to be gay slurs...". Lets examine this comparison.
Both homosexuality and below average intelligence are something a person is born with. They can deny it, attempt to hide it from others, but it is who they are. Both things could be considered a birth defect, but by no means are either a negative judgement on the person with that trait. Both are just something that makes a person different than most of the rest of society.
Vile Pagan has no issues calling people "stupid" or "idiots" in posts on this forum, he has done it many times. He defends it by declaring that he is just calling a spade a spade. Now, if one is to accept that line of thinking, why would be calling Vile Pagan "gay" or "a flaming queen" be considered a slur? In both cases, it is not derogatory, it is just a description of Vile Pagan after he had revealed his heterosexual deficiencies. It is not libelous, for VP has freely admitted to his defect, and there is no negative judgement in the word itself, it is just an accurate representation of who he is.
If Vile Pagan considers it a slur to be called gay, isn't that on him? Doesn't that show some kind of intimate shame or insecurity he has when someone reiterates a fact that he long ago admitted to? If not, if the act of calling Vile pagan "gay" should be considered a slur, then what about calling someone "stupid"? VP says he only calls stupid people "stupid", so he is committing the same sin he rails against. If someone really had a below average intelligence, would the continued reminding that person of his defect be considered a slur as well?
I would suggest VP's only out in this scenario is an admission that he throws the word "stupid" or "idiot" around at people only when he knows they actually aren't stupid & he is just doing it to be, well, mean spirited. It would be like MDDad calling me gay even though he knows I am straight. He does it as an insult because he knows I am the opposite of the accusation.
So the excuse that what VP uses as insults is just "banter" and what is used as insults towards him is a "slur" carries no weight & is an illogical contention.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 21, 2020 21:46:51 GMT -8
Put another way, whether or not a word is a slur is not so much dependent on its factual accuracy as it is on the baggage attached to it. Telling someone they are of below average intelligence is not a slur, but calling them an idiot or a retard is. Calling someone gay is not a slur (assuming they are), but calling them a fag is.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 22, 2020 2:43:41 GMT -8
So the excuse that what VP uses as insults is just "banter" and what is used as insults towards him is a "slur" carries no weight & is an illogical contention. Where did I say that calling you or anyone stupid was just "banter'? It seems to me that would be just as dumb as claiming that your gay slurs are just "banter". I'm afraid you'll have to try harder than that. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 22, 2020 4:12:15 GMT -8
If it's not banter, how would it square with a claim of not being mean spirited?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jul 22, 2020 5:13:48 GMT -8
If it's not banter, how would it square with a claim of not being mean spirited? Regardless, is this really worthy of an entire thread? Banter or Slur? Stupid or Fag? “Are We Not Men? We RE Devo”.... D-E-V-O !!!! |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 22, 2020 5:56:55 GMT -8
Yes I think so. Hopefully it will illuminate the differences between busting each other's chops in an acceptable way, and being unacceptably mean spirited here to each other.
The stuff I post can rightfully be called mean spirited to certain ideals or public figures I disagree with. I don't intend to do that with anyone on this forum, and I don't think it adds much value here, or anywhere when I see others engage in it.
The reason I left the last forum was grounded in that difference between banter and slurs, along with what I perceived to be an arbitrary enforcement of rules.
I believe this thread addresses the key underlying issue head on.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 22, 2020 6:43:02 GMT -8
I don’t use what Vile-Butt might call a “slur” as either a slur or as banter.
i neither like nor respect him (can I call him “him?”) and have no regard for what he thinks or believes.
he is an recalcitrant reprobate who spares no opportunity to disparage and disrespect rather than argue or even disagree agreeably.
I disagree with those, here, who claim he provides a different perspective to consider. He provides nothing worth considering and his presence here is only an anchor, dragging us down.
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 22, 2020 10:28:30 GMT -8
If it's not banter, how would it square with a claim of not being mean spirited? I'm not of the opinion that it must be one or the other. It's not mean-spirited when I call dave "shit-for-brains"...it's the response he deserves when he refers to me using some juvenile insult.. I don't give dave more thought than that. I think being mean-spirited requires a more sinister motive. |
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Post by vilepagan on Jul 22, 2020 10:30:12 GMT -8
I don’t use what Vile-Butt might call a “slur” as either a slur or as banter. i neither like nor respect him (can I call him “him?”) and have no regard for what he thinks or believes. he is an recalcitrant reprobate who spares no opportunity to disparage and disrespect rather than argue or even disagree agreeably. I disagree with those, here, who claim he provides a different perspective to consider. He provides nothing worth considering and his presence here is only an anchor, dragging us down. No, you just have feces where others have brain matter. That's why you can't follow Bick's wishes and act like an adult. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 22, 2020 12:57:53 GMT -8
If it's not banter, how would it square with a claim of not being mean spirited? I'm not of the opinion that it must be one or the other. It's not mean-spirited when I call dave "shit-for-brains"...it's the response he deserves when he refers to me using some juvenile insult.. I don't give dave more thought than that. I think being mean-spirited requires a more sinister motive. For the purpose of this discussion and this forum, let's call interactions cordial / friendly (banter) or un-friendly / mean-spirited (slurs). I think it's pretty easy to figure out which bucket posts belong. I also get the need to occasionally engage in that stuff...hence the Swamp or private messages if we'd like. It's just inconsiderate of our fellow members when we engage in that stuff on nearly every thread. I did it as much as anyone on the last board, and looking back, it wasn't really the right thing to do. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 22, 2020 13:34:08 GMT -8
You all remember I had problems with Brooke as well.
I eventually buried the hatchet with her and even, at one point, invited her to join another Forum I moderated (where she eventually alienated most of the members so I also asked her to leave, which she graciously did).
Most of my comments to her, before we kissed and made up, were mean spirited and I felt uncomfortable saying them to her, even as I disparaged her.
I am disappointed in myself to acknowledge, I do not feel at all bad or uncomfortable about anything I say to or about our resident reprobate. Apart from the obvious aberration of his preference for male genitalia, he is simply an immoral, recalcitrant asshole adept at nothing other than destroying communities like this.
from Nick’s clarification, I accept anything I say to or about he/she is a slur (and not banter), but not a slur aimed at hurting his feelings. I don’t care whether or it my comments hurt his/it’s feelings: If a slur, it is related to the disregard... possibly disrespect... I have for it/her/him.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 22, 2020 14:20:47 GMT -8
See Dave, I don't think any one person is capable of destroying a reasonably strong community, as I think this is. The thing that torpedoes a community is when multiple people regularly cross over from being cordial, and even worse, when they gang up on a guy or guys that way. While this community his its faults likely being too laissez faire at times, I think it's incumbent on the members here to recalibrate on occasion to redefine what acceptable bounds are as a whole. That begs the question...is regularly crossing over what we want from each other here? More a curiosity than anything that resembles a "rule" I'm looking for in this.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 22, 2020 14:51:05 GMT -8
See Dave, I don't think any one person is capable of destroying a reasonably strong community, as I think this is. The thing that torpedoes a community is when multiple people regularly cross over from being cordial, and even worse, when they gang up on a guy or guys that way. While this community his its faults likely being too laissez faire at times, I think it's incumbent on the members here to recalibrate on occasion to redefine what acceptable bounds are as a whole. That begs the question...is regularly crossing over what we want from each other here? More a curiosity than anything that resembles a "rule" I'm looking for in this. In Myers-Briggs parlance, I am an intuitive and a thinker. that means I “see” things (more of a gut-feel) that others might might not, and I’m unusually analytical from a “problem/solution” perspective. what that means here is, I know when one of us is lying: I might not know what the truth is, but I know the lie. It also means I see (and in this case, resist) those problems around us when they present themselves. So, yes, I do think it wise for (all of) us to establish what is and what is not acceptable and that, from my perception, is what we have established in another part of this forum. That said, though, I cannot remain silent when I see a problem. As you (all) know, I have been more than forthcoming with my perspective on our resident reprobate and some of you have agreed, some have disagreed but the long and short of it is, here he remains with his ludicrous personae and his ridiculous pretense at intelligent argument. SO, I am left with a choice between just remaining silent (which I’m sure many here realize that possibility), or lobbing truth grenades at him on occasion. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 22, 2020 14:53:18 GMT -8
Bick, I agree that this is a community that regulates itself well, and that's the best that any forum membership or site owner can hope for. When engaging among ourselves, there are rarely comments that cross the lines of decency or common sense (except when RSM insists Terry Bradshaw should be considered as the greatest quarterback of all time). Even when there is disagreement (and I often bear the brunt of that disagreement), there is rarely if ever any disparagement.
But at the same time, this forum has one member who seems to have no interest in debate or disagreement. He gives the impression of being here only to irritate and insult, and sometimes it is human nature to give tit for tat. That usually results in the rhetoric getting more personal and insulting, and I have no acceptable suggestions as to how to tamp it down. I don't support banning members because it sets a precedent of stifling contrary opinion, but numerous attempts at civility have been short-lived because it hasn't been reciprocated. I don't see any other option except to use the Ignore function.
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Post by Oakley on Jul 22, 2020 18:15:33 GMT -8
I am disappointed in myself to acknowledge, I do not feel at all bad or uncomfortable about anything I say to or about our resident reprobate. Apart from the obvious aberration of his preference for male genitalia, he is simply an immoral, recalcitrant asshole adept at nothing other than destroying communities like this. from Nick’s clarification, I accept anything I say to or about he/she is a slur (and not banter), but not a slur aimed at hurting his feelings. I don’t care whether or it my comments hurt his/it’s feelings: If a slur, it is related to the disregard... possibly disrespect... I have for it/her/him. I am curious, how do you square your Christian values while disparaging vilepagan? I am not criticizing you, just wondering how you look at it. I disparage vilepagan too because I believe he is a troublemaker and brings no value to the forum. |
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