Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 31, 2021 21:14:38 GMT -8
A recent post by Vile piqued my curiosity about some of the more serious incidents of discrimination toward minorities. I hadn't heard of the Tuskegee Experiment, and then yesterday that led to a conversation with a black friend of mine about the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa a century ago. The fact was part of any US History course I took in HS or college is pretty disappointing - especially when the Civil Rights movement led by Martin Luther King was covered, as was the Japanese internment at Manzanar, a direct result of a Democrat President's Executive Order. Clearly, I'm not looking to extract apologies or do the guilt thing, but would rather discuss the causes and cures, and who was leading the country or state at the time of the various incidents. www.history.com/news/black-wall-street-tulsa-race-massacre
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Post by vilepagan on Apr 1, 2021 2:47:25 GMT -8
A recent post by Vile piqued my curiosity about some of the more serious incidents of discrimination toward minorities. I hadn't heard of the Tuskegee Experiment, and then yesterday that led to a conversation with a black friend of mine about the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa a century ago. The fact was part of any US History course I took in HS or college is pretty disappointing - especially when the Civil Rights movement led by Martin Luther King was covered, as was the Japanese internment at Manzanar, a direct result of a Democrat President's Executive Order. Clearly, I'm not looking to extract apologies or do the guilt thing, but would rather discuss the causes and cures, and who was leading the country or state at the time of the various incidents. www.history.com/news/black-wall-street-tulsa-race-massacrePerhaps I can be forgiven for feeling that perhaps you are looking to do a little guilt... For example: "as was the Japanese internment at Manzanar, a direct result of a Democrat President's Executive Order." I'm guessing that was you and not a quote from your linked article.
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Apr 1, 2021 5:33:39 GMT -8
Bick, I would recommend taking a look at the infamous case Korematsu v. United States. (see link) There, the Court ruled that "that the evacuation order violated by Korematsu was valid, and it was not necessary to address the constitutional racial discrimination issues in this case" reasoning that "Because the order applied only to people who were Japanese or of Japanese descent, it was subject to the “most rigid scrutiny.” The majority found that although the exclusion of citizens from their homes is generally an impermissible use of government authority, there is an exception where there is “grave [ ] imminent danger to the public safety” as long as there is a definition and close relationship between the government’s actions and the prevention against espionage and sabotage. The majority ruled that there was sufficient danger and a sufficient relationship between the order and the prevention of the danger to justify requiring Korematsu to evacuate. The majority said the order was valid." Coincidentally, I might be stopping by Manzanar this weekend.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 1, 2021 9:29:01 GMT -8
Frog, thanks for providing that context. It seems that a certain political group is more than willing to use a perceived exogency as a reason to suspend civil rights.
Hopefully we can find more examples of these discriminatory actions by our federal and local governments to see who actually perpetrated them.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Apr 1, 2021 9:44:16 GMT -8
Here's the key sentence: "the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa a century ago."
Most educated Americans are aware of Tuskegee, Japanese internment, etc., etc. All those occurred or ended over 50-100 years ago.
Since the inception of the Great Society and War on Poverty programs in the 1960s there have been multiple trillions spent on balancing the playing field. There is currently no law, no policy, nor any institution in American that is preventing anyone from succeeding and advancing up the economic ladder--and there hasn't been for 55+ years.
The idea being perpetrated by Joe Biden and the Democratic Party that voter integrity laws such as the one recently passed in Georgia are "Jim Crow on steroids" is the perhaps the grossest and most disingenuous form of race-baiting in modern political history. These are bald-faced lies designed to divide people and empower the Left--and nothing else.
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Apr 1, 2021 9:45:07 GMT -8
It was an odd situation indeed and I guess a sign of the times. There were more Germans in America than Japanese, but I suppose the fear of the Japanese was spurred on by the fact that we were engaged in operations against them and were not super involved in the European front yet.
Then again, things could have been much different had the whole German-Mexico invasion taken place.
Side note, if I remember correctly, Korematsu was “good law” up until the last 5 years.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 1, 2021 9:54:35 GMT -8
There were more Germans in America than Japanese, but I suppose the fear of the Japanese was spurred on by the fact that we were engaged in operations against them and were not super involved in the European front yet. The difference was that the Japanese had demonstrated the ability to cross half an ocean to bomb and all but destroy an American air and naval base on American soil. The natural (albeit erroneous) reaction was that they might have the ability to reach our West Coast as well, and the risk of assistance from Japanese-Americans living there had to be avoided. There was never any reason to fear that Germany could do the same.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Apr 1, 2021 10:09:58 GMT -8
It was an odd situation indeed and I guess a sign of the times. There were more Germans in America than Japanese, but I suppose the fear of the Japanese was spurred on by the fact that we were engaged in operations against them and were not super involved in the European front yet. Then again, things could have been much different had the whole German-Mexico invasion taken place. Side note, if I remember correctly, Korematsu was “good law” up until the last 5 years. Difference, JAPAN attacked our shores, that always gets lost in the story even though Pearl harbor is still celebrated and recognized today. And yes, a DEMOCRAT President of the United States spoke, "..a day that will live in infamy". Maybe we can cancel this history too as we are doing with the rest of it.....
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Apr 1, 2021 10:18:04 GMT -8
I hear the “democrat party of yesteryear is not the same as it is today” argument quite often.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 1, 2021 11:23:09 GMT -8
I hear the “democrat party of yesteryear is not the same as it is today” argument quite often. More hypocrisy from the left. The Democratic party of today is not the same as it was in the past, but white people are still the same as the ones who owned, beat and sold slaves.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 1, 2021 21:14:10 GMT -8
Here's the key sentence: " the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa a century ago."Most educated Americans are aware of Tuskegee, Japanese internment, etc., etc. All those occurred or ended over 50-100 years ago. Since the inception of the Great Society and War on Poverty programs in the 1960s there have been multiple trillions spent on balancing the playing field. There is currently no law, no policy, nor any institution in American that is preventing anyone from succeeding and advancing up the economic ladder--and there hasn't been for 55+ years. The idea being perpetrated by Joe Biden and the Democratic Party that voter integrity laws such as the one recently passed in Georgia are "Jim Crow on steroids" is the perhaps the grossest and most disingenuous form of race-baiting in modern political history. These are bald-faced lies designed to divide people and empower the Left--and nothing else. I agree there is nothing I'm aware of that is preventing a minority from pursuing the American dream, defined as the belief that anyone, regardless of where they were born or what class they were born into, can attain their own version of success in a society in which upward mobility is possible for everyone. I think it's a fair position that some of these particularly egregious events have been absent from what's being taught in HS history classes. Wouldn't the real issue be that unchecked power leads to some potentially disastrous policies?
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thefrog
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Post by thefrog on Apr 2, 2021 5:14:21 GMT -8
Here's the key sentence: " the Black Wall Street massacre in Tulsa a century ago."Most educated Americans are aware of Tuskegee, Japanese internment, etc., etc. All those occurred or ended over 50-100 years ago. Since the inception of the Great Society and War on Poverty programs in the 1960s there have been multiple trillions spent on balancing the playing field. There is currently no law, no policy, nor any institution in American that is preventing anyone from succeeding and advancing up the economic ladder--and there hasn't been for 55+ years. The idea being perpetrated by Joe Biden and the Democratic Party that voter integrity laws such as the one recently passed in Georgia are "Jim Crow on steroids" is the perhaps the grossest and most disingenuous form of race-baiting in modern political history. These are bald-faced lies designed to divide people and empower the Left--and nothing else. I agree there is nothing I'm aware of that is preventing a minority from pursuing the American dream, defined as the belief that anyone, regardless of where they were born or what class they were born into, can attain their own version of success in a society in which upward mobility is possible for everyone. I think it's a fair position that some of these particularly egregious events have been absent from what's being taught in HS history classes.
Wouldn't the real issue be that unchecked power leads to some potentially disastrous policies? What's the difference between not teaching history and re-writing history? Both seem to be occurring...
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 2, 2021 5:48:51 GMT -8
It was an odd situation indeed and I guess a sign of the times. There were more Germans in America than Japanese, but I suppose the fear of the Japanese was spurred on by the fact that we were engaged in operations against them and were not super involved in the European front yet. Then again, things could have been much different had the whole German-Mexico invasion taken place. Side note, if I remember correctly, Korematsu was “good law” up until the last 5 years. Difference, JAPAN attacked our shores, that always gets lost in the story even though Pearl harbor is still celebrated and recognized today. And yes, a DEMOCRAT President of the United States spoke, "..a day that will live in infamy". Maybe we can cancel this history too as we are doing with the rest of it..... Seems like that should fit in with today's #StopAsianHate movement.
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