davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 2, 2021 9:47:37 GMT -8
New information: The diplomatic Services folks have removed the dogs from the Kabul Embassy. Not left Tommie, after all:  |
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Post by vilepagan on Sept 2, 2021 12:58:59 GMT -8
I wonder if James Woods will tweet a retraction?
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Post by mrright on Sept 5, 2021 5:09:28 GMT -8
why is it americas job to get those clowns that had plenty of time to get out , out?
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 5, 2021 5:56:42 GMT -8
why is it americas job to get those clowns that had plenty of time to get out , out? Because they are Americans, and we are America. Sometimes, we have to intervene, even when someone is too foolish to do it for themselves. HOWEVER, we don't have to: We should. |
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Post by mrright on Sept 5, 2021 8:31:33 GMT -8
why is it americas job to get those clowns that had plenty of time to get out , out? Because they are Americans, and we are America. Sometimes, we have to intervene, even when someone is too foolish to do it for themselves. HOWEVER, we don't have to: We should. bullshit,,,they had a yr to leave. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 5, 2021 9:38:23 GMT -8
Because they are Americans, and we are America. Sometimes, we have to intervene, even when someone is too foolish to do it for themselves. HOWEVER, we don't have to: We should. bullshit,,,they had a yr to leave. So what? Obviously, you've never been isolated and hopeless. You, lacking any relevant experience, can be heartless and cruel. The rest of us have compassion. |
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Post by mrright on Sept 5, 2021 9:55:32 GMT -8
so what were they doing there? you're right,,im not stupid enough to put myself in that position
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Sept 5, 2021 10:57:14 GMT -8
I think mrright has a point. We cannot know what the situation is/was for those undisclosed number of Americans still in Afghanistan who want to get out. But if (and that's a critical "if") they were given adequate warning that they had to get out, were offered the opportunity and chose not to, then they have only themselves to blame for their predicament. It's true that we are not obligated to risk other lives to try to rescue them but we do have a responsibility to do what we can.
By the same reasoning, when people are warned to get out of a hurricane's path, choose not to and become stranded, we don't wave and tell them to go fly a kite. We go all out to rescue them. Likewise, we do have an ethical obligation to do what we can to get Americans stranded in Afghanistan out. But we aren't obligated to risk additional lives to do so, even though we may choose to do so.
Having made the point, let us not lose sight of the fact that this whole disgraceful fiasco is a purely Joseph Biden cluster that was so incompetently managed that it defies belief. I cannot believe that the decision to precipitously abandon Bagram overnight and then evacuate American citizens from a commercial airport - after the departure of a significant proportion of the military - was the military's plan of choice..........................Luca
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 5, 2021 11:07:32 GMT -8
I think mrright has a point. We cannot know what the situation is/was for those undisclosed number of Americans still in Afghanistan who want to get out. But if (and that's a critical "if") they were given adequate warning that they had to get out, were offered the opportunity and chose not to, then they have only themselves to blame for their predicament. It's true that we are not obligated to risk other lives to try to rescue them but we do have a responsibility to do what we can. By the same reasoning, when people are warned to get out of a hurricane's path, choose not to and become stranded, we don't wave and tell them to go fly a kite. We go all out to rescue them. Likewise, we do have an ethical obligation to do what we can to get Americans stranded in Afghanistan out. But we aren't obligated to risk additional lives to do so, even though we may choose to do so. Having made the point, let us not lose sight of the fact that this whole disgraceful fiasco is a purely Joseph Biden cluster that was so incompetently managed that it defies belief. I cannot believe that the decision to precipitously abandon Bagram overnight and then evacuate American citizens from a commercial airport - after the departure of a significant proportion of the military - was the military's plan of choice..........................Luca The articles I've read tell me a number of both Americans AND afghanis who helped us wanted to leave but could not get to the airport as the Taliban was already in strong force, some patrols even starting to kill the afghanis who did not bow to them. I am also aware of missionaries there who did not want to leave at first because the situation wasn't as bad as it got to be, but later changed their minds. In any case, I am NOT saying they don't bear some responsibility for their plight, but I am saying have some compassion. |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Sept 5, 2021 11:44:18 GMT -8
You're right. I agree.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Sept 5, 2021 12:33:15 GMT -8
Moral and ethical responsibilities are always a hazy area for debate. If a person smokes four packs a day for 50 years, knowing smoking causes lung cancer, and then comes down with the disease, is society obligated to treat him with taxpayer funds? Or when a guy over 300 pounds eats fast food twice a day, knowing it can cause diabetes or heart disease? And there are dozens of others.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 17, 2021 15:52:09 GMT -8
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Post by vilepagan on Sept 22, 2021 4:37:22 GMT -8
A little historical perspective on Afghanistan and why perhaps the Brits have no reason to criticize...
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 22, 2021 6:00:28 GMT -8
Moral and ethical responsibilities are always a hazy area for debate. If a person smokes four packs a day for 50 years, knowing smoking causes lung cancer, and then comes down with the disease, is society obligated to treat him with taxpayer funds? Or when a guy over 300 pounds eats fast food twice a day, knowing it can cause diabetes or heart disease? And there are dozens of others. That we disavow the cause does not mean we cannot have compassion for the effect. That said, however, having compassion doesn't necessarily or always mean step in to mitigate... although a compassionate person would certainly be tempted to do what they can. Hows THAT for equivocation! 🥸 |
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Sept 28, 2021 15:54:24 GMT -8
Well here's someone willing to stand up for speaking his conscience AND did so knowing full well he'd be jailed for it. The country I'd like us to return to was built by guys like that.
Semper Fi
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