Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 24, 2020 20:48:27 GMT -8
We can't be in a civil war if one side refuses to fight.
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Post by Oakley on Nov 25, 2020 14:18:06 GMT -8
Yep... I’ve been saying that for years. I hadn't considered it to be on a good v evil spiritual level in the past, but more of a differing of ideologies, some of which I could agree with. I wouldn't put the entire left into the evil bucket of course, but there are certain factions that I can't stand at all. Are you of the same mindset, or are you putting them all in that bucket? Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? What about defunding police departments? Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 25, 2020 14:26:14 GMT -8
Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens... This is a more complex issue than some would like to think. First, if millions of illegal aliens being in this country has a devastating effect of American citizens, it has already happened. Making them legal does not mitigate that damage. And second, amnesty is an entirely different thing from granting them citizenship. Amnesty means they become legal, so they can get real social security cards, join the regular economy rather than the under-the-table black market economy, and begin paying all the taxes (income and otherwise) that other legal residents have to pay. With all that said, I'm vehemently opposed to amnesty, unless (a) it comes with a very, very stiff financial penalty for having violated our laws, (b) it precludes any and all chain migration of family members, and (c) those granted amnesty for being here illegally can never become citizens. That would almost immediately stop the tidal wave of Democratic pandering to this one class because they could never become a captured voting base. |
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Post by Oakley on Nov 25, 2020 14:47:41 GMT -8
Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens... This is a more complex issue than some would like to think. First, if millions of illegal aliens being in this country has a devastating effect of American citizens, it has already happened. Making them legal does not mitigate that damage. And second, amnesty is an entirely different thing from granting them citizenship. Amnesty means they become legal, so they can get real social security cards, join the regular economy rather than the under-the-table black market economy, and begin paying all the taxes (income and otherwise) that other legal residents have to pay. With all that said, I'm vehemently opposed to amnesty, unless (a) it comes with a very, very stiff financial penalty for having violated our laws, (b) it precludes any and all chain migration of family members, and (c) those granted amnesty for being here illegally can never become citizens. That would almost immediately stop the tidal wave of Democratic pandering to this one class because they could never become a captured voting base. Amnesty will entitle them to become citizens. Those who use fraudulent social security cards do pay taxes. There will be no penalties for violating our laws. Democrats want chain migration to ensure their political power. Tragically, what you want will never come to pass. There are no benefits for our country or American citizens in giving amnesty to illegal aliens. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Nov 25, 2020 15:12:13 GMT -8
I hadn't considered it to be on a good v evil spiritual level in the past, but more of a differing of ideologies, some of which I could agree with. I wouldn't put the entire left into the evil bucket of course, but there are certain factions that I can't stand at all. Are you of the same mindset, or are you putting them all in that bucket? Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? What about defunding police departments? Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? 1. Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? Result could be evil, depending on the criminal activity after the release. It is a bad idea, and transparently geared towards pandering for votes. 2. What about defunding police departments? Stupid and ill-conceived, not evil, per se. 3. Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? Again, transparent pandering for votes, and really stupid and poorly thought out, but not evil... however I’d be willing to bet you and I define “evil” differently. |
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Post by Oakley on Nov 25, 2020 16:31:36 GMT -8
Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? What about defunding police departments? Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? 1. Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? Result could be evil, depending on the criminal activity after the release. It is a bad idea, and transparently geared towards pandering for votes. 2. What about defunding police departments? Stupid and ill-conceived, not evil, per se. 3. Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? Again, transparent pandering for votes, and really stupid and poorly thought out, but not evil... however I’d be willing to bet you and I define “evil” differently. I should have said the release of mass numbers of criminals as in the thousands that have been released this year in the US due to the Covid virus. Included are violent felons such as murderers, rapists, robbers, etc. There are already innocent victims and there will be future victims. Evil has already taken place because of these actions and will continue to happen. Nothing good can come of defunding police departments. Evil will flourish as a result. Giving amnesty to criminal aliens is evil because of the devastation that will happen to American citizens. Livelihoods destroyed, jobs taken away, lowered wages, environmental damage, neighborhoods trashed and the lowering of property values. The demographics will turn the nation upside down. Yes, our definition of evil is indeed different. I look at what will take place as a result of these moronic policies, which will befall innocent victims. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 25, 2020 20:54:40 GMT -8
I hadn't considered it to be on a good v evil spiritual level in the past, but more of a differing of ideologies, some of which I could agree with. I wouldn't put the entire left into the evil bucket of course, but there are certain factions that I can't stand at all. Are you of the same mindset, or are you putting them all in that bucket? Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? What about defunding police departments? Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? I don't think any of those is evil (defined by me as intentionally harming an innocent). |
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Post by Oakley on Nov 25, 2020 21:04:44 GMT -8
Do you consider releasing criminals from prisons good or evil? What about defunding police departments? Is giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens good or evil because of the devastating effects on American citizens, including millions more immigrating to the US via chain migration? I don't think any of those is evil (defined by me as intentionally harming an innocent). I am dumbfounded because they all directly cause the harming of innocents! |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 25, 2020 21:07:46 GMT -8
I'm sorry--there is no working with those who want you silenced or destroyed.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Nov 25, 2020 21:11:37 GMT -8
I'm sorry--there is no working with those who want you silenced or destroyed. Barring the reversal of this fraudulent election, the Resistance starts on January 21st. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 25, 2020 22:52:34 GMT -8
I don't think any of those is evil (defined by me as intentionally harming an innocent). I am dumbfounded because they all directly cause the harming of innocents! I don't disagree that innocents will be harmed by these actions. I just don't believe the INTENT is to harm. I think they believe those actions are beneficial. They just don't seem to think about consequences. I don't give them enough credit for being cunning enough to effect some global world order when I hear the likes of Biden or the squad. |
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Post by Oakley on Nov 27, 2020 19:20:39 GMT -8
I am dumbfounded because they all directly cause the harming of innocents! I don't disagree that innocents will be harmed by these actions. I just don't believe the INTENT is to harm. I think they believe those actions are beneficial. They just don't seem to think about consequences. I don't give them enough credit for being cunning enough to effect some global world order when I hear the likes of Biden or the squad. What then is the intent of releasing criminals from prisons inasmuch as the purpose of prisons is to protect innocent people? Every country has prisons to keep their citizens safe along with punishing criminals for their evil behavior. How can morons who release them not be judged harshly? |
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Post by Oakley on Nov 27, 2020 19:35:44 GMT -8
How can consequences not be considered when making decisions? Isn’t that a logical part of forming policies especially those that affect the lives of people?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 27, 2020 21:19:21 GMT -8
How can consequences not be considered when making decisions? Isn’t that a logical part of forming policies especially those that affect the lives of people? It's probably very condescending of me, but I don't think many of the decisions made by the left include the notion there may be consequences to their choices. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 27, 2020 22:21:54 GMT -8
Rational people have the ability to look at the chain of events. For example, if I do A, it will cause a good B, which will cause a bad C, which will cause a bad D, which will cause a bad E, etc. Democrats and the left seem to lack the ability or the willingness to see past B.
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