Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 12, 2019 11:48:52 GMT -8
Just when you think a new level ridiculous gets reached...here comes a new one. Not only did the chair of the House Financial Services committee not realize that commercial banks stopped making student loans about a decade ago (unbeknownst to me as well, the federal gov't has been making these loans directly for some time now) she went on to embarrass herself by "grilling" the banking execs about what THEY planned to do about it. And then, she actually tweeted this gem out to her followers.
And as she continues to brag...she's got the gavel.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 12:24:33 GMT -8
What a maroon.
"So, you guys who are not the debt owners, may not even have been involved in the original transactions...... what are you going to do to 'come up with a program of some kind' to relieve $1.5 trillion owed by individuals who willingly took out those loans?"
Did you notice the expressions on some of those bankers, looking at her with their jaws dropped? That was maybe the funniest part. I would love to know what they were thinking. "Are we part of some SNL skit?".......................Luca
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 12, 2019 12:54:53 GMT -8
Did she really call them "Captains of the Universe"? WTF??
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 12, 2019 13:02:20 GMT -8
Regarding student loans, one part of the equation never addressed is the tuition amounts charged by colleges. If they had to truly compete and did not have an endless funnel of cash coming its way via government funded student loans, the cost of tuition would be much less.
Further, they take no responsibility for the product they offer. If I sell you a TV that I claim can reproduce a 4K image & it doesn't, I am legally responsible to make things right. Colleges are selling an education that they claim will end up in higher dollar job offers or a better life. If those claims prove false, why is the college allowed to just walk away scot free?
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 13:25:13 GMT -8
Come on, RSM. If you have sufficient IQ to attend college you must by default have sufficient IQ to understand there are no guarantees with a college education. A premed major has no guarantee of getting into medical school (the vast majority don't, in fact) and an engineering major has no guarantee of getting a job with Boeing, and so on.
It's an investment like anything else. It may or may not pay off and it's up to you to decide whether the investment is worth it
(I assume you are referring to typical colleges and universities and not the questionable trade school types).............................Luca
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 12, 2019 14:20:15 GMT -8
It's an investment like anything else. It may or may not pay off and it's up to you to decide whether the investment is worth it I agree, but some investments are more sound than others. How many thousands of college students in this country working toward degrees in Ethnic Studies, Sociology, Art Appreciation, English Literature, Kinesiology, etc., are going to find they've flushed their borrowed money down the toilet? |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 14:33:49 GMT -8
Of course. But there are 2 ways of looking at it. The traditionalist would say there is an intangible personal value simply having an education in philosophy, history and literature etc. This is partly how we learn to appreciate Western culture, incidentally.
But if the purpose was to leverage that degree in ethnic studies into a CEO position they were hopelessly stupid to think so in the first place and that is ultimately no one's fault but their own.
They are not always dead ends, incidentally. Kinesiology is not a worthless degree because there is a need for that expertise. One of my daughters got a masters in psychology and she is actually doing phenomenally well as a marriage and family therapist. Much better than I would have thought possible. My other daughter also got a psychology degree and it was wasted. (Fortunately she married a Thai entrepreneur and at age 25 they own eight restaurants.)
Not to digress too much, but if you borrow a boatload of money to get a degree that does not have much future value it's your fault, you're an idiot and it only proves that Darwinism still operates...........Luca
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 12, 2019 14:35:07 GMT -8
...It's an investment like anything else. It may or may not pay off and it's up to you to decide whether the investment is worth it.............................Luca I don't disagree with that statement, but I would suggest that the issue at hand is that an education is not sold the way you describe it (by the universities). When recruiting, universities hold up successful alumni as examples of what their program can produce. I have never heard of a university declaring that after you get a degree from them in engineering or some other major, you can expect to be tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars in debt and there is a good chance that you will never really use that degree in the profession you end up in. University pitch only positives, give no real world information about what occurs a majority of the time and have no liability when their product (a degree) is of no use in the job market. They are not dissimilar to many Network Marketing offers, where the pitch is how wealthy you can be, but the fine print shows that the average distributor makes $2.47 per month. The difference is it doesn't cost $100,000 to start an Amway business and the government is not giving out loans to everyone who gets convinced that selling soap is the way to go. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 14:40:58 GMT -8
RSM, these are adults and they have to exercise a little bit of common sense. If you attend a university you will get an education if you put in the effort. Whose fault is it if students choose one of these dead end majors?
If you have buy a $75,000 automobile and then find out you can't afford the payments, is that the fault of the dealership? You got your car like you wanted. It was up to you to figure out if it was a good investment before you started.........................Luca
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 12, 2019 14:51:36 GMT -8
The traditionalist would say there is an intangible personal value simply having an education in philosophy, history and literature etc. The traditionalist would be correct. But "intangible personal value" can't be used to repay student loans. I'm happy that your daughter has leveraged her psychology degree to find professional success and, I assume, a nice income. On the other hand, I would love to see the mean annual incomes of all college students with psychology degrees. I suspect you and I would both be very disappointed. And I also hope you would agree that the typical 18-year-old high school graduate lacks the knowledge and self-awareness to make an intelligent educational or life decision that so often results in the debt burdens so many of them graduate with. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 16:29:26 GMT -8
I don't think we're on the same page here.
Yes, it is very unfortunate that some people graduate with significant debt and are struggling to pay it off. And yes, most people with, for example, a psychology degree do not put it to any grand economic benefit.
We can agree that this is unfortunate and feel sorry for those individuals.
But I'm not sure who you think is responsible for this. Do you blame universities for having traditional majors that do not translate well into most of today's economy? You think they should be telling kids "For God's sake, stay away from our humanities department"?
You seem to be implying that somehow this is the fault of the university's and colleges, not the people who freely chose those particular majors. Of course many 18-year-old's can't make an intelligent decision like this. I think most of them can, but a number cannot and that is just one more reason why God invented parents.
I don't believe that universities are running a Ponzi scheme with guys standing on orange crates holding megaphones and yelling "Step right up and ride that philosophy degree into a golden future!"
Actually, I don't think it's that the dead end majors themselves are the problem so much as that tuitions are so ungodly high, as someone pointed out earlier. College situations are a bubble and I think the day of reckoning is coming for a lot of universities
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 12, 2019 16:32:01 GMT -8
Duplicate post. Why did God make me so inept with computers? |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 12, 2019 17:03:08 GMT -8
I don't see any duplicate post 😏
Why one of those bankers didn't respond with "the solve for this crisis is to get the government out of the loan business...again.
And by the way madame chairman, you providing easy access to money for kids with no chance of ever paying it back, is what's been driving up the cost of education as well - just as your insistence on easy access to mortgage loans to unqualified buyers was the root cause of the financial market meltdown.
Might I suggest Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics to give you an idea of the concept of supply and demand. "
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Apr 12, 2019 17:25:15 GMT -8
Did you notice the expressions on some of those bankers, looking at her with their jaws dropped? That was maybe the funniest part. I would love to know what they were thinking. " Are we part of some SNL skit?".......................Luca I don't know what's funnier - their expressions, or the fact she's doing a victory lap by tweeting it. Fair warning, don't be drinking anything while you read the Twitter responses, or it will end up coming out your nose. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 12, 2019 21:35:32 GMT -8
Clearly, colleges, parents and high school students have been unable to address and correct this problem. Maybe it's time for the lenders to do it:
"OK, Johnny, if you're going to major in a STEM discipline that's likely to result in a career with significant earning potential, we will lend you up to $50,000 a year. But if you choose some silly ass, dead-end major, our lending limit is $2,000 a year. Or you can go to a J.C. until you get your head on straight. We'll wait to hear what you and your parents decide."
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