Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Feb 15, 2019 9:59:17 GMT -8
Kind of refreshing to be able to be critical about one of the actions of the president without having to endure the diatribe that usually follows from those who would use it as proof positive that ANY support of the president is a clear sign of being an imbecile.
That said, having him show signs of being supported as evidenced in his 51% approval in today's Rasmussen poll, is certainly going to be shorted lived after this bit. Couple that with Pence being on record about Obama circumventing congress, will most likely slam a torpedo into his momentum following the SOTU. This also takes the media focus off the Amazon HQ debacle, and the Green New Deal. This is the kind of stuff that had me scratching my head during his campaign. So many times I thought he kept screwing himself by opening his mouth.
|
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
|
Post by MDDad on Feb 15, 2019 11:08:02 GMT -8
Has anyone else on this forum seriously considered the likelihood that Trump just isn't very bright? Personally, I think he's a moron...especially when compared to the intelligent, articulate and quick-witted person he used to be. His mental decline is frightening.
|
|
Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Feb 15, 2019 12:05:11 GMT -8
I'm inclined to give you a thumbs up on that one. Either that, or his tactics are so far over my level of comprehension that his brilliance is blinding. Would be interesting to see him interviewed in his prime v. today.
|
|
Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by Luca on Feb 15, 2019 12:57:18 GMT -8
Well, I would take a look at the objective evidence:
1). He has an economics degree from the Wharton School of Business at Penn, possibly the best in the US.
2). He has authored a few books, including a best seller.
3). He was a billionaire before the age of 40 in an extraordinarily competitive New York environment.
4). He defeated numerous capable politicians for the Republicans nomination despite never have been a politician.
5). He defeated Hilary Clinton and was elected president.
6). He maintains the reliable support of approximately 45% of the nation after more than 2 years in office.
No, I do not think is a moron, unless you classify all of us such.............Luca
|
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
|
Post by MDDad on Feb 15, 2019 13:11:57 GMT -8
Luca, #1, 2 and 3 on your list are evidence that he was much sharper decades ago, which I've already acknowledged. His interviews on the Dick Cavett and Merv Griffin shows are shocking reminders of what he used to be like. And #4, 5 and 6 are measurements of popularity, not intelligence.
|
|
Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by Luca on Feb 15, 2019 13:30:27 GMT -8
I would respectfully disagree. There are a large number of very bright people who would love to have accomplished numbers 4, 5 and 6 and yet they did not,
There are large numbers of very bright people who have tried to appeal to mere popularity to achieve numbers 4, 5 and 6 and he did not.
Only a very shrewd individual could have achieved all that. You can be a bright person and still make some obviously foolish choices/comments. I have 7 kids who offer proof of that.
History offers endless examples of many very bright people who were capable of absurd decisions/behavior. Albert Einstein, Robert E Lee, Winston Churchill, Jerry Brown, etc.
No, he is not a moron
Actually, I am a little surprised at you, Dad. I do not normally associate you with that kind of hyperbole
|
|
Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Feb 15, 2019 13:57:34 GMT -8
In fairness, while he may not be a full, or even half- fledged fledged moron, I would agree that he's doing some things that could be objectively considered moronic.
|
|
Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by Luca on Feb 15, 2019 14:29:45 GMT -8
I think almost all of us would agree with that. I could't vote for the man (nor for Clinton) because I didn't think either of them were qualified to be President. Even though I have tempered my opinion somewhat of him, I still don't consider him presidential material.
He says and does things that irritate the hell out of me because they are so counterproductive and unnecessarily belligerent. At the same time I agree with a number of things that he is trying to do and don't think many other "qualified" candidates could have brought about:
He has forced NATO members to grow up and realize they have a bigger role in their own safety
He has helped the federal judiciary tilt away from judicial activism
He has made intellectual property rights an issue China must acknowledge
He has made border security and immigration control a priority and has not backed down where others would have
He has made sincere efforts and possibly some progress to settle things down with North Korea and Russia
He's starting to make a farce of political correctness by being grossly incorrect and belittling the sillier aspects of PC. It's actually having an effect
Granted he is screwing up other things, but overall I'm not too unhappy. As an aside he has made it fun to watch the Democratic histrionics in responses to him. That's got to be worth something.
|
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
|
Post by SK80 on Feb 15, 2019 15:13:01 GMT -8
I think the way or the optics of the way he goes about things can be construed as moronic. However this is a man that gets results. No ifs ands or buts. There are times I do not like his style but then I take a step back and see that without these things would NOT be getting done. He has made some moves that I believe like some of you that are counter-productive. And they seem to come right on the heels of big wins. My conclusion is that his style is pompous and the guy is actually a bully. I would love to see a polite diplomat but the world doesn't work with those anymore. Bottom line, Trump is a fighter for the people like he have not seen since I do not know whom....
|
|
Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Feb 15, 2019 15:21:06 GMT -8
Substance Trumps style for the first time in a very long time.
While I believe many can see this, I'm concerned more would be turned off by it. Moderate guys I know have swung to the dark side because the "style" has been too tough to stomach. I find myself becoming increasingly agitated as well.
Not so much because I'm offended, but because I think it will torpedo his chances of maintaining this momentum.
|
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
|
Post by SK80 on Feb 15, 2019 15:44:59 GMT -8
I thought the SOTU and in more recent speeches he has turned to some moments of inclusive and softer tone. You would think someone like him would have ethics's best PR people around and the would coach him through these things. Then again maybe he is crazy like MDDad says!
|
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
|
Post by MDDad on Feb 15, 2019 16:00:21 GMT -8
I'll defer to the majority, but I think you guys are kidding yourselves. When Trump feels forced to read what has been written for him, he can sound inclusive and conciliatory. But it's not his nature. When he speaks his mind openly, he comes across as what he really is -- a truly reprehensible human being. I can honestly say I've never met an adult who lies as openly and freely as Trump...about everything.
|
|
Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by Luca on Feb 15, 2019 16:19:53 GMT -8
I have. But then again, it was at the Washington DC VA Hospital psychiatric ward and the guy was a paranoid schizophrenic
|
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
|
Post by SK80 on Feb 15, 2019 16:42:40 GMT -8
Not sure with Trump if I can hold him to any high standard as far as lies, mis-statements or exaggerations but I do hold the lying media drastically lower.
|
|
Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Feb 16, 2019 10:20:08 GMT -8
At the risk of over-moderating, I thought I'd pull in some of the posts from other threads that are more about Trump specifically than any particular policy. I think it's pretty clear that few of us would want to have someone with his personality, who actually did partake, over for cocktails on a regular basis. I'd probably have to get a couple down the hatch to be able to stomach what seems to be narcissism on steroids, but I have to admit that I've developed an appreciation for the directness of East Coast / New Yorkers.
I believe most of us are happy with the agenda items he is attempting to accomplish, despite what looks like his inability to get out of his own way.
What I'm looking for is a discussion of his tactics...his successes...his missteps including the lies or embellishments. I've lost confidence in others to be able to have an objective discussion about this. Far too much gets ignited by broaching this outside the confines of a select group. At some point, I'd like to have similar discussions about past presidents going back as far as we're interested.
|
|
