Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,317
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Post by Luca on Mar 31, 2020 19:18:46 GMT -8
So if Brady is the GOAT, shouldn't he be able to lead Tampa to a couple of playoff berths the next two years? This reminds me of a funny story I heard probably around the mid ‘80s or ‘90’s. A number of baseball players, some not all that great, had just signed multi million dollar contracts. People were amazed by some of the money that was being thrown around, including some sports writers. One of them asked the retired Stan Musial (Is that how you spell it?), given the current environment, what he thought he would be getting paid if he were playing today.
Musial thought for a little while and said “Maybe a half million dollars.”
‘Half a million? Are you kidding?” asked the reporter. “There are guys nowhere near as good as you were making millions.“
“Yeah,“ said Musial, “but you have to realize I’m 73 years old now.”
My point being that Tom Brady is well past his prime and would be fortunate to have even a decent year this coming season.................Luca
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by MDDad on Mar 31, 2020 21:26:14 GMT -8
Exactly. The one thing we know about Brady is that he'll be 43 years old this season. To suggest that if he can't lead a below average Tampa Bay team to the playoffs he somehow loses any consideration as the greatest quarterback of all time is ludicrous. Most people think Willie Mays is the greatest centerfielder of all time, but he's 88, and the fact that he couldn't lead the Angels to a playoff berth this year doesn't negate that honor either.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 31, 2020 21:53:02 GMT -8
So when Brady wins Super Bowls at age 39 & 41, that cements him as the GOAT, but when he can't lead Tampa to the playoffs at 43, it is because he is too old?
If he was too old to make a difference at 43, then why do you give him credit and accolades for being the difference at 39 & 41? If you are going to remove any negativity for a bad season with Tampa the next 2 years, then you need to remove any positives from the last few years as well.
Or did he suddenly lose alot of talent the moment he retired from the Patriots?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Apr 1, 2020 5:10:09 GMT -8
...GOAT QB ALL TIMME, it's Brady by most measures. The RSM FACTOR just isn't that heavy to tilt that scale! So if Brady is the GOAT, shouldn't he be able to lead Tampa to a couple of playoff berths the next two years? If I am going to label someone as the single greatest QB in the history of the game, he doesn't get to slack off for a few years and still hold the belt. Would you still consider Brady to be GOAT if Tampa goes 5-11 next year and The Patriots end up back in the Super Bowl without him? At his present age I would put little merit in what he does from here on out. Did Muhammed Ali lose his "BELT.GOAT" title getting slapped silly at the end of his career? If New England goes on a wins a Super Bowl you have more weight to your argument. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 1, 2020 19:12:45 GMT -8
I understand your Ali comparison, but it is a little different in an individual sport as opposed to a team sport.
In other news, the NFL just made Tom Brady's job to get Tampa into the playoffs easier by adding another playoff spot. The four division winners & 3 wildcards, nearly half the teams in each conference. The #1 seed gets a bye while the 2, 3 & 4 seeds get the wild card teams. Had this been the case last year, the Rams would have made the playoffs as the 3rd wildcard.
The Bucs were 7-9 last year with Jameis Winston at QB. If Brady is indeed Goat, how can he not squeeze out another 2 or 3 wins and get a playoff spot for the Bucs?
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,317
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Post by Luca on Apr 1, 2020 20:53:23 GMT -8
I understand your Ali comparison, but it is a little different in an individual sport as opposed to a team sport.
Precisely, and this supports SK 80’s point. In an individual sport if you are the GOAT you’re more likely to remain successful as you age because it’s all on you, your personal ability. If you’re playing a team sport and you’re an aging GOAT, you’re less likely to have a decisive effect. How did Jordan do in his final year with Carolina?
Since I think most of us would agree that Ali may have been the boxing GOAT, the fact that he did lose towards the end of his career does indicate that age Is a decisive factor in somebody’s performance (unless you mean to conclude that Leon Spinks was a better boxer than Ali). So it will be with Brady, an aging (possible) GOAT playing a team sport with diminished ability..................Luca |
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by SK80 on Apr 2, 2020 6:30:56 GMT -8
TB could sit on the bench at Tampa Bay and it would change a thing about his two decade record and status.... Hey anyone catch TB plays now for TB !!
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 2, 2020 20:25:00 GMT -8
I understand your Ali comparison, but it is a little different in an individual sport as opposed to a team sport.
Precisely, and this supports SK 80’s point. In an individual sport if you are the GOAT you’re more likely to remain successful as you age because it’s all on you, your personal ability. If you’re playing a team sport and you’re an aging GOAT, you’re less likely to have a decisive effect...
I would think it would be the opposite, that in an individual sport, as the GOAT ages, he has less success but then shows flashes of his past brilliance. Jack Nicklas winning the 1986 Masters is an example that comes to mind. Same thing with Ali, he was past his prime when he beat Foreman. A quote I like as I age is "Never accept that all your best moments are in your past". A GOAT may not be able to perform day in & day out like he once did, but he will have moments that show what his ability is (or was). In a team sport, I would suggest that a GOAT makes people around him better even as his skills diminish. John Elway and Peyton Manning come to mind in leading Denver to their only Super Bowls. What a GOAT in a team sport loses in physical ability is often surpassed by wisdom & leadership, making those players around him better than another player who may have more ability. In Brady's case, his physical attributes were never what set him apart, rather it was the way that he played the game and ran the offense. Those abilities don't diminish at 43 if the will to prove yourself is still there. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 2, 2020 20:33:17 GMT -8
TB could sit on the bench at Tampa Bay and it would change a thing about his two decade record and status.... Hey anyone catch TB plays now for TB !! I agree that it wouldn't change anything about what he has accomplished. No QB has accomplished as much as Brady has. However, I believe the discussion about GOAT is not who has accomplished the most, but who the greatest player is. Accomplishments are part of it, but how they were accomplished plays a big part too. For example, MDDad doesn't believe Terry Bradshaw is in the GOAT discussion because the players who surrounded him are the reason the Steelers won those 4 Super Bowls in 6 years. My argument against Brady being Goat is similar, it was the coach & the system that were the reason why the Patriots had 2 runs of 3 Super Bowl wins. With Bradshaw, we never got the chance to see him play away from the Steelers or the Steelers of those years play for an extended time without Bradshaw. With Brady, we do get to see that comparison, albeit it at the end of his career. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Apr 2, 2020 20:33:36 GMT -8
Precisely, and this supports SK 80’s point. In an individual sport if you are the GOAT you’re more likely to remain successful as you age because it’s all on you, your personal ability. If you’re playing a team sport and you’re an aging GOAT, you’re less likely to have a decisive effect...
I would think it would be the opposite, that in an individual sport, as the GOAT ages, he has less success but then shows flashes of his past brilliance. Jack Nicklas winning the 1986 Masters is an example that comes to mind. Same thing with Ali, he was past his prime when he beat Foreman. A quote I like as I age is "Never accept that all your best moments are in your past". A GOAT may not be able to perform day in & day out like he once did, but he will have moments that show what his ability is (or was).
In a team sport, I would suggest that a GOAT makes people around him better even as his skills diminish. John Elway and Peyton Manning come to mind in leading Denver to their only Super Bowls. What a GOAT in a team sport loses in physical ability is often surpassed by wisdom & leadership, making those players around him better than another player who may have more ability. In Brady's case, his physical attributes were never what set him apart, rather it was the way that he played the game and ran the offense. Those abilities don't diminish at 43 if the will to prove yourself is still there. I get it! Like a man having sex as he ages. Tri-weekly, then try weekly, then try weakly. |
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by SK80 on Apr 7, 2020 10:43:24 GMT -8
I would think it would be the opposite, that in an individual sport, as the GOAT ages, he has less success but then shows flashes of his past brilliance. Jack Nicklas winning the 1986 Masters is an example that comes to mind. Same thing with Ali, he was past his prime when he beat Foreman. A quote I like as I age is "Never accept that all your best moments are in your past". A GOAT may not be able to perform day in & day out like he once did, but he will have moments that show what his ability is (or was).Oldest winning QB in NFL HISTORY is..... TOM BRADY. #CheckThatBox #GOAT And which one of your GOAT's RSM have done this...? #NONE #NoOneEverInHistory Tom Brady is first QB to make two all-decade teams:
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/06/tom-brady-is-first-qb-to-make-two-all-decade-teams/
Add another accomplishment to Tom Brady‘s legendary career: First quarterback ever named to two all-decade teams.
Brady was a unanimous choice for the 2010s all-decade team, which was his second honor after also making the 2000s all-decade team. profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/06/tom-brady-aaron-donald-among-unanimous-choices-for-2010s-all-decade-team/ |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,317
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Post by Luca on Apr 7, 2020 11:18:10 GMT -8
I get it! Like a man having sex as he ages. Tri-weekly, then try weekly, then try weakly. Evidently spoken from experience. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Apr 7, 2020 18:07:28 GMT -8
I get it! Like a man having sex as he ages. Tri-weekly, then try weekly, then try weakly. Evidently spoken from experience. I knew that was coming! Actually, I'm still in the first category, but the rules and the menu are much different. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 7, 2020 18:29:09 GMT -8
...And which one of your GOAT's RSM have done this...? #NONE #NoOneEverInHistory That is a unique accomplishment, especially considering that his Super Bowl wins came at the beginning of the first decade and the end of the second decade. I wonder if the voters chose him based on that or on the numbers he put up in the middle, where his individual performance was better than his teams success? |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 8, 2020 11:00:50 GMT -8
Perhaps the best way to end this silliness is to look at what is said by people more expert than we are. These are the top three GOAT choices of the first 16 websites that come up if you google the question.
cbssports.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Monanta
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #13
bleacherreport.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Johnny Unitas
Terry Bradshaw is #19
espn.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #9
athlonsports.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw is #18
si.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Monanta
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is not listed
clutchpoints.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #13
ranker.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Drew Brees
3. Johnny Unitas
Terry Bradshaw is #18
thedelite.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Drew Brees
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #25
ftw.usatoday.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #12
nfl.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #17
thetoptens.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #11
mensjournal.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Johnny Unitas
Terry Bradshaw is #7
sportsbreak.com
1. Joe Montana
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
Tom Brady is #4
Terry Bradshaw is not listed
touchdownwire.usatoday.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #22
sportscasting.com
1. Joe Montana
2. John Elway
3. Joe Montana
Tom Brady is #4
Terry Bradshaw is not listed
yardbarker.com
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Peyton Manning
Terry Bradshaw is #18
The consensus seems pretty clear. And Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Byron Leftwich, Matt Shaub, Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, Ryan Tannehill, Kirk Cousins, et. al. didn't make anyone's top ten.
I hope that puts an end to it.
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