davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 12, 2020 10:13:06 GMT -8
It is about time someone explained us. This Article in the National Review is pretty spot on. Please read the whole thing: I can’t possibly do justice with just a couple quotes... but, then, I’d like your insights. also note the sentence about us nit getting the fair hearing we deserve: That really rings true. O.K., that’s enough from me, you get the idea. Read the rest on your own and lend me your thoughts. |
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Luca
Master Statesman
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Post by Luca on Feb 12, 2020 14:21:07 GMT -8
That sounds pretty common sense and it's not even a very novel concept. I think the same is true for a great many people, religious conservatives or not. Most people are not at all enthralled with Trump's persona or demeanor but he's getting things done that need to be done when nobody else seem to be able to do it.
That plus the fact that the alternative to Trump is more repelling than he is himself. Personally I didn't vote for him because of his demeanor, but even so if I do vote this time around I'm sure as hell not going to vote for any of the Democratic contenders so far.............................Luca
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 12, 2020 14:58:44 GMT -8
That sounds pretty common sense and it's not even a very novel concept. I think the same is true for a great many people, religious conservatives or not. Most people are not at all enthralled with Trump's persona or demeanor but he's getting things done that need to be done when nobody else seem to be able to do it. That plus the fact that the alternative to Trump is more repelling than he is himself. Personally I didn't vote for him because of his demeanor, but even so if I do vote this time around I'm sure as hell not going to vote for any of the Democratic contenders so far.............................Luca A Libertarian friend of mine spares no opportunity to promote “his” candidate. In this instance, he told me I don’t have to choose between the lesser of two evils... my response to him was, well, yes I do because one of the two parties WILL win in November, so until there is a viable third party candidate, I will limit my choices to republican or Democrat. I then went n to suggest, as you have, given the current slate of democrat hopefuls jockeying for the job, it sure as heck ain’t going to be one of them. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 12, 2020 15:26:13 GMT -8
That sounds pretty common sense and it's not even a very novel concept. I think the same is true for a great many people, religious conservatives or not. Most people are not at all enthralled with Trump's persona or demeanor but he's getting things done that need to be done when nobody else seem to be able to do it. That plus the fact that the alternative to Trump is more repelling than he is himself. Personally I didn't vote for him because of his demeanor, but even so if I do vote this time around I'm sure as hell not going to vote for any of the Democratic contenders so far.............................Luca Exactly what I've been saying on TOB and now on this board. The answer the Dems are looking for, about why we vote for such a flawed candidate, can be found in their mirrors. What they are offering...what they are demanding we believe in...is reprehensible in our eyes, Almost everything they advocate is a deal-breaker to us. In the words of my favorite liberal Jonathan Pie, (after listing all of Trump's failings), "How shit have you got to be to lose to that?" Well...look in the mirror Democrats. Look at what you stand for. Your answer is there. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 12, 2020 17:33:00 GMT -8
Well said Professor, and I too share many or most of Libertarian leanings, yet in our two party reality I can find some of that in the Republican Party and not much of any in the Democrat Party. For me, the biggest threat to my Liberty is BIG GOVERNMENT LIBERALISM & SOCIALISM. (Won't add just yet the bordering on COMMUNISM presented by some of these extreme left candidates.)
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Feb 14, 2020 6:51:54 GMT -8
I have had a libertarian almost convince me to vote libertarian in November.
His rationale centered around the predictable outcome of the election here in Illinois: Regardless of how many of us “down-staters” vote for Trump, a Republican will never carry Illinois. As Chicago goes, so goes the state, meaning Cook County will always our-vote the rest of the state... which means the democrat candidate will always get our electors.
If enough people vote for the libertarian, though, and they manage to cross the 5% threshold, they are officially listed as a third party in the state.
What do you guys think? California must be in the same boat, isn’t it?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 14, 2020 9:08:43 GMT -8
What do you guys think? California must be in the same boat, isn’t it? Are you kidding? Clinton beat Trump by 4.3 million votes in California. Obama beat Romney by 3 million. Obama beat McCain by 3.3 million. Kerry beat Bush by 1.2 million. Gore beat Bush by 1.3 million. Clinton beat Dole by 1.3 million. Clinton beat Bush by 1.5 million. No Republican has carried this state since the Dukakis debacle 32 years ago. Our votes mean less than nothing here. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Feb 14, 2020 9:32:03 GMT -8
What do you guys think? California must be in the same boat, isn’t it? Are you kidding? Clinton beat Trump by 4.3 million votes in California. Obama beat Romney by 3 million. Obama beat McCain by 3.3 million. Kerry beat Bush by 1.2 million. Gore beat Bush by 1.3 million. Clinton beat Dole by 1.3 million. Clinton beat Bush by 1.5 million. No Republican has carried this state since the Dukakis debacle 32 years ago. Our votes mean less than nothing here. That is what I’m suggesting. Since a Republican will never carry CA, wouldn’t it make sense to vote libertarian this time? |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 14, 2020 11:15:56 GMT -8
Since a Republican will never carry CA, wouldn’t it make sense to vote libertarian this time? I don't know. If it doesn't matter, how can it make sense? We might as well write in Jimmy Hoffa or Bob Marley as vote Republican or Libertarian. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 14, 2020 13:39:04 GMT -8
What you are missing is if enough Republicans vote Libertarian, the Libertarian party gets the chance to be listed as a 3rd party. This then gives an avenue for those voters who are socially liberal and would never vote Republican, but also don't like the way the Democratic party is going, to vote for someone else. It could loosen the Dems stranglehold on the state.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 14, 2020 13:56:30 GMT -8
I understand that, but I think loosening the Dems stranglehold on the state will require more than people voting off-party. It's more likely to take a financial and social meltdown before enough people come to their senses. Too many naive and gullible voters here still believe that all the leftist bullshit is the best solution to everything that ails the state.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 14, 2020 14:03:01 GMT -8
Since a Republican will never carry CA, wouldn’t it make sense to vote libertarian this time? I don't know. If it doesn't matter, how can it make sense? We might as well write in Jimmy Hoffa or Bob Marley as vote Republican or Libertarian. Well, yes, you can do that, but in terms of bringing a third party to the table, the more libertarian bites that are registered, the greater the chances they’ll have that seat. In IL, that threshold is 6%, but I don’t know if it is different by state. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 14, 2020 16:06:28 GMT -8
So what good does it do to have a third (or fourth, or fifth,...) party "at the table" if it has 5% or 6% support?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 14, 2020 17:10:12 GMT -8
That is what I’m suggesting. Since a Republican will never carry CA, wouldn’t it make sense to vote libertarian this time? And listen to the media and Dems cry about the popular vote again... nope. I spent years on that Libertarian thing as far as a party... its beyond dysfunctional. I'm forced to call myself a Republitarian. I think many of us here would support that party..., Hey, I have like this glowing light bulb hovering over my head right now...., can you see the light! |
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davidsf
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Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Feb 14, 2020 17:21:59 GMT -8
That is what I’m suggesting. Since a Republican will never carry CA, wouldn’t it make sense to vote libertarian this time? And listen to the media and Dems cry about the popular vote again... nope. I spent years on that Libertarian thing as far as a party... its beyond dysfunctional. I'm forced to call myself a Republitarian. I think many of us here would support that party..., Hey, I have like this glowing light bulb hovering over my head right now...., can you see the light! Understood, I’ve been having the same discussion with the Libertarian party chair, here. it’s like “my mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with facts.” |
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