Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,318
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Post by Luca on Jun 3, 2019 13:00:00 GMT -8
If a woman has a naturally high testosterone level I don’t see how you can justify not allowing her to compete. It’s a natural (and possibly equivocal) advantage in playing her sport, but then so is height and intelligence and percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers, etc. etc.. Life isn’t fair.
When people take anabolic steroids to give themselves increasing strength and performance, they generally use synthetic drugs that are derivatives of testosterone, such as dianabol or winstrol. These have a much more potent muscle building effect versus natural testosterone. They can also be distinguished from naturally occurring testosterone.
Someone could probably get away with it by taking natural testosterone supplements which as far as I know cannot be distinguished in the laboratory from that which your body makes. But on the other hand natural testosterone is not as beneficial in terms of performance as taking the synthetic ones. I don’t know if there’s a problem with athletes taking natural testosterone or not.
Since women have such a relatively low testosterone level, taking a natural testosterone supplement would probably be more beneficial to them than to men I would think, but I don't know for sure…………………………………Luca
PS. Hey, when did I become a "sage"? Was it something I said?
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 3, 2019 13:19:12 GMT -8
It's an interesting discussion. I never really thought about it before, but have there been studies to determine whether or not gay men have lower levels of testosterone than straight men? I'm convinced Serena Williams could probably kick Pete Buttigieg's ass, but might it be partly because she has more testosterone in her system?
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,318
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Post by Luca on Jun 3, 2019 15:52:33 GMT -8
There's no relationship between testosterone levels and homosexuality that I've ever heard about
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Jun 3, 2019 15:57:32 GMT -8
If a woman has a naturally high testosterone level I don’t see how you can justify not allowing her to compete. It’s a natural (and possibly equivocal) advantage in playing her sport, but then so is height and intelligence and percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers, etc. etc.. Life isn’t fair. When people take anabolic steroids to give themselves increasing strength and performance, they generally use synthetic drugs that are derivatives of testosterone, such as dianabol or winstrol. These have a much more potent muscle building effect versus natural testosterone. They can also be distinguished from naturally occurring testosterone. Someone could probably get away with it by taking natural testosterone supplements which as far as I know cannot be distinguished in the laboratory from that which your body makes. But on the other hand natural testosterone is not as beneficial in terms of performance as taking the synthetic ones. I don’t know if there’s a problem with athletes taking natural testosterone or not. Since women have such a relatively low testosterone level, taking a natural testosterone supplement would probably be more beneficial to them than to men I would think, but I don't know for sure…………………………………Luca PS. Hey, when did I become a "sage"? Was it something I said? I’m pretty sure you just have that sage-like aura. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 3, 2019 16:19:24 GMT -8
I think he's now called Sage because he always smells kind of herbal.
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,912
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Post by Bick on Jun 3, 2019 17:29:19 GMT -8
The Sagacious Society conferred the honor to Luca at its regular quarterly meeting after review every line of his prior posts for composition and originality.
All hail his Herbaceousness!
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,912
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Post by Bick on Jun 3, 2019 17:33:12 GMT -8
Looks like this testosterone level issue is a pretty big deal. I hadn't heard of the requirement to lower that T level, or that it was even possible.
After further review, I figured out the link to HRT, and that the IAAF was requiring normal female levels be maintained. Not sure how safe that is health wise.
Maybe I should figure out that football isn't the only sport... Nah!
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,289
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Post by RSM789 on Jun 3, 2019 17:57:46 GMT -8
I was listening to Dr. Drew the other day and the subject of testosterone & how it affects male behavior was being discussed. Dr. Drew relayed the story of Chastity (now Chaz) Bono going through the transgender process. After receiving testosterone injections for a period of weeks, Bono said "Dr. Drew, I have to apologize to all the men in the world. I used to think they were just being misogynists, but after getting testosterone, all I think about is sex. I even find myself not being able to carry on a conversation with a woman without taking a glance at her breasts".
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,912
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Post by Bick on Jun 3, 2019 18:57:11 GMT -8
I'm afraid I know more about Caster Semenya than I really intended.
Ever heard of an intersex person? Me neither.
"Because of the glaring XY omission, many across the globe ended up reading opening paragraphs like this from the front page of the New York Times:
Female track athletes with naturally elevated levels of testosterone must decrease the hormone to participate in certain races at major competitions like the Olympics, the highest court in international sports said Wednesday in a landmark ruling amid the pitched debate over who can compete in women’s events.
If I had been writing for the NY Times, I’d have added just six words and there would have been no confusion as to what really happened.
Intersex track athletes with XY chromosomes and naturally elevated levels of testosterone must decrease the hormone to participate in certain races versus women at major competitions like the Olympics, the highest court in international sports said Wednesday in a landmark ruling amid the pitched debate over who can compete in women’s events."
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Jun 3, 2019 20:31:22 GMT -8
After reading the article on Semenya and learning that she is intersex (XY, with internal testes) my opinion has changed. In this rare case, it seems that requiring her to take testosterone-suppression hormones (if she wants to compete with other women) is the only fair way to keep some integrity to women's competition. So I side with the IAAF and disagree with the recent court ruling.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 3, 2019 21:33:00 GMT -8
I hadn't heard of the requirement to lower that T level, or that it was even possible. The technique for lowering testosterone levels in men has been known for some time. The patient is strapped into a dentist's chair, his eyelids are taped open, and for 24 hours he is forced to look at photos of Hillary Clinton in revealing lingerie. Some men have even been known to revert back to a pre-puberty state. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Jun 5, 2019 8:01:07 GMT -8
I hadn't heard of the requirement to lower that T level, or that it was even possible. The technique for lowering testosterone levels in men has been known for some time. The patient is strapped into a dentist's chair, his eyelids are taped open, and for 24 hours he is forced to look at photos of Hillary Clinton in revealing lingerie. Some men have even been known to revert back to a pre-puberty state. O.K., MDDad, that’ll be enough of that. Not only should some things be left unsaid, but how’m I now to unsee those mental images. i won’t sleep for a week... maybe more. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,819
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Post by MDDad on Jun 5, 2019 8:42:45 GMT -8
Insomnia may be an unfortunate side effect, but don't you already feel your testicles shrinking?
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,912
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Post by Bick on Jun 5, 2019 9:17:20 GMT -8
Insomnia may be an unfortunate side effect, but don't you already feel your testicles shrinking? At our age, we don't need much help in that regard. How about some Melania mental images instead? |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,318
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Post by Luca on Jun 5, 2019 10:32:18 GMT -8
Forgive me for digressing but you guys remind me of one of my favorite encounters.
A guy was seeing me for follow-up on his treatment for prostate cancer. At that time the standard treatment was to put the patient on a testosterone inhibitor, which would lower the testosterone level and slow the growth of the prostate cancer. He and his wife came in to discuss the medication and the wife, who was obviously very concerned, asked me "Are there any side effects to the medication?"
I gave her my most earnest look and said "Well, yes, there are few. For example, he may completely lose his sense of direction, he may become extremely opinionated and prone to arguing but never admit that he’s wrong, he might be more emotional………..”
(All the while she is looking at me intently)
“………and cry during sad movies, and every 4 weeks or so get extremely irritable…….”
And she suddenly gave me the death stare, realizing that I was joking with her. At least her husband thought it was funny. Odd, now that I think about it, she doesn’t come in with him any more.
Back to our regularly scheduled program………………………………
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