davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 6, 2020 8:04:47 GMT -8
When I taught “Leadership” to managers for 10 years, we thought people can learn about leadership as much from bad examples as we can from positive examples. Let’s not make this political (other than possibly we will know the politics of the exemplars we use), but share examples of failed leadership here. for example, a story out today tells of the failed leadership of the (Temporary) Secretary of the Navy who not only ridiculed the Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt, but did so over the PA system OF his former command so all the sailors, formerly under the command of this man, heard it. i believe another example might also have been the Commander, Himself, who might or might not have been well-intended, but at least should have observed some command-level discretion before sending out his memo. i will appreciate your thoughts Navy Secretary Blasts Ousted Carrier Captain |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 6, 2020 8:24:31 GMT -8
One of the points of leadership that I find many overlook is setting an example. When someone in authority does something, good or bad, they are condoning that action for all those who they have authority over. The old do as i say, not as i do undermines any chance of leading people. This goes for parenting as well.
I had a person compliment me the other day for helping out with the care taking duties for my mom. I told her I'm also doing it for selfish reasons, I want my adult children to see that if their mother needs help when she is older and I am dead and gone, it is their responsibility to pitch in.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 6, 2020 9:28:48 GMT -8
One of the points of leadership that I find many overlook is setting an example. When someone in authority does something, good or bad, they are condoning that action for all those who they have authority over. The old do as i say, not as i do undermines any chance of leading people. This goes for parenting as well. I had a person compliment me the other day for helping out with the care taking duties for my mom. I told her I'm also doing it for selfish reasons, I want my adult children to see that if their mother needs help when she is older and I am dead and gone, it is their responsibility to pitch in. I agree with that. setting a proper example and, in so doing, holding someone accountable for their actions, explains why the Commander was and should have been relieved of his command. That was action and then consequence, and the example was, everyone knew why he was relieved and such should have been communicated to the crew. IMO, leadership does not include publicly ridiculing him by calling him “either too naive or too stupid” to command a ship. from what is conveyed in the article, it also appears the Commander also showed a lack of leadership by sending out the email to those outside of his chain of command (in the military, going outside the chain of command is punishable). |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 6, 2020 15:57:08 GMT -8
I’m not sure what the secretary of the Navy did but I have heard what that carrier commander did, and unless I’m missing a major piece of information I think he was out of line in doing so. There is a chain of command in the military and there is a protocol for voicing your concerns and getting something done. You don’t send an anxious letter out to 20 or 30 people simultaneously. I believe that carrier was in the South China Sea and it has a crucial role in maintaining stability there. Advertising a weakness in your ability to carry out your mission is really ill advised...............Luca
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 6, 2020 16:08:15 GMT -8
I’m not sure why the secretary of the Navy did but I have heard what that carrier commander did, and unless I’m missing a major piece of information I think he was out of line in doing so. There is a chain of command in the military and there is a protocol for voicing your concerns and getting something done. You don’t send an anxious letter out to 20 or 30 people simultaneously. I believe that carrier was in the South China Sea and it has a crucial role in maintaining stability there. Advertising a weakness in your ability to carry out your mission is really ill advised...............Luca Yes, I agree: As I said in the OP: |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Apr 6, 2020 18:29:12 GMT -8
From what I've read it sounds like both transgressed some lines, but unfortunately the story is hopelessly colored by the media's psychotic need to attack Trump.
The Chosen One fired Gen. Stanley McChrystal in 2010 after the general criticized him in Rolling Stone magazine. That was similarly out of line and his firing was totally justified--constitutionally if not strategically.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 6, 2020 19:55:57 GMT -8
I just read some of the comments from the secretary of the Navy for the first time.
Jeez, some people simply do not know how to get their points across with clarity and class. You would think a guy who has ascended to that position would be able to express himself more professionally.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Apr 6, 2020 21:27:21 GMT -8
I just read some of the comments from the secretary of the Navy for the first time. Jeez, some people simply do not know how to get their points across with clarity and class. You would think a guy who has ascended to that position would be able to express himself more professionally. What? The president of the United States can't express himself with clarity, class and professionalism, so why should we expect it of the navy secretary? |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Apr 6, 2020 22:02:07 GMT -8
I just read some of the comments from the secretary of the Navy for the first time. Jeez, some people simply do not know how to get their points across with clarity and class. You would think a guy who has ascended to that position would be able to express himself more professionally. What? The president of the United States can't express himself with clarity, class and professionalism, so why should we expect it of the navy secretary? Kind of a cheap shot. Trump can express himself with clarity, in fact the way he chooses to talk is easier to understand than compared to someone like Gavin Newsom, who peppers every speech with a few "we must meet the moment" as well as a couple of selections from last weeks word of the day calendar. Trump can also express himself with class & professionalism and does it every day. Look at the way we talks about people and company who are doing great things for our country. Now what Trump can't do is respond to an insult or false accusation with class & professionalism. In those cases, he responds in kind, in a crude manner worse than the insulter and looks to nuke the person he is engaging. It is a personality trait that I understand, I do the same thing. I'm not condoning it, I just understand it. Interestingly enough, a huge segment of our population is fine with it. After years of having candidates and officials on the right who took every shot aimed at them and never defended themselves, it is refreshing for many to have a president who fights back. And admit it, when I engage someone that you don't like and I respond in a classless, unprofessional manner but hit the target dead nuts, you smile. I know you do. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Apr 6, 2020 23:28:15 GMT -8
What? The president of the United States can't express himself with clarity, class and professionalism, so why should we expect it of the navy secretary? After years of having candidates and officials on the right who took every shot aimed at them and never defended themselves, it is refreshing for many to have a president who fights back. Right on the money! |
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duke
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Post by duke on Apr 7, 2020 7:18:03 GMT -8
 You're correct!
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Apr 7, 2020 8:52:48 GMT -8
Getting back to the opening post:
I spoke to a retired Admiral about this series of events and he provided some additional background.
The CO of the Roosevelt had already been communicated with by both the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) and SECNAV specifically about COVID-19 aboard the ship and he had assured both of them he had what he needed and the infection was under control. THEN he sends out the email around his chain of command showing himself to be a victim, that he was sounding the alarm but no one was listening to him, and generally showing himself to be a suffering hero... thus included leaking the memo outside the Navy.
So, I understand how the acting SECNAV was pissed and why he called the now former CO either too naive or too stupid (the Admiral to whom I spoke did not believe the CO was stupid, but endorsed the emotions and absolutely would have relieved him of command, too). I do NOT condone saying that sort of thing publicly or announcing it over the ship’s PA system.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Apr 7, 2020 11:21:40 GMT -8
Agreed. I was surprised that a carrier commander - active duty assignments don't get much higher - would behave like that.........................Luca
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Apr 7, 2020 14:43:01 GMT -8
Is this an example of "FAILED LEADERSHIP"? New York City auctioned off extra ventilators due to cost of maintenance: report
thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491651-new-york-city-auctioned-off-extra-ventilators-due-to-cost-of-maintenance
New York City auctioned off hundreds of city-owned ventilators at least five years ago under Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, according to an investigation by ProPublica.
The city acquired the ventilators in 2006 under former Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s administration, when a new strain of the flu was circulating in Asia, according to a report from the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene obtained by the news outlet.
The city began to acquire ventilators and "stockpile a supply of facemasks," which were later auctioned off because the machines broke down and the health department "couldn't afford to maintain them," according to ProPublica.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Apr 7, 2020 14:49:33 GMT -8
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You're correct!