Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 15, 2019 8:42:49 GMT -8
The National Security emergency bit isn't the way to go about this. Hopefully it gets stopped.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 15, 2019 8:53:42 GMT -8
I agree. The dangerous precedent it sets far outweighs the dubious benefits.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 15, 2019 17:30:48 GMT -8
I agree. The dangerous precedent it sets far outweighs the dubious benefits. I'm not seeing the precedent. My understanding is that many presidents have declared emergencies, including Bill Clinton 17 times and Barack 13 times. Trump has a lot of catching up to do to match their "precedents." And even if this one is somehow different, I think it is naive to believe that if Trump doesn't do it, then the Democrats won't do it. Yeah sure they won't. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 15, 2019 17:33:55 GMT -8
What makes it an emergency today when it wasn't for the past 25 months?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 15, 2019 17:55:49 GMT -8
What makes it an emergency today when it wasn't for the past 25 months? I could argue it has been one for far more than 25 months....., going as far as 25 years and longer. As much as I admire Reagan for most everything he did I believe he started the crisis with his Amnesty plan. Politicians have abused that move by the 40th President ever since. I am sick and tired of this immigration debacle by a country that is suppose to uphold it's sovereignty. Speaking of sovereignty, we are in a f'n emergency.  |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 15, 2019 18:29:45 GMT -8
What makes it an emergency today when it wasn't for the past 25 months? The first year of Trump's presidency his tough talk caused a drop in illegals entering the US. But now, the non-stop Caravans have been organized by the bleeding heart leftists, with their focus on giving legal advice on exactly what to say to claim asylum, has created a huge increase in such claims. According to the NY Times, there were 2 caravans in 2017 resulting in 350 migrants reaching the border. But, as reported by BBC, in 2018 7,000 migrants from one caravan reached the border with two other smaller groups lagging behind, while four smaller groups had left El Salvador for the US. BBC says the number of migrants expected to reach the border is about 10,000. www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45951782That's why it's now an emergency. Well, that and the Dems' refusal to allow anything that could improve our ability to control the situation. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 15, 2019 18:35:48 GMT -8
On a related point, the Dems are all excited that Trump said "I didn't need to do this." I'm sure he will say he meant that it didn't have to come to this, had the Dems negotiated in good faith, to help solve the problem together.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 15, 2019 18:52:57 GMT -8
Agree, this should have been solved TOGETHER and should have been solved before now. I believe what Trump is doing is drawing a line in the sand (no pun) as he sees the Democratic Party controlling the border, their future voter base. He may be going out on a political limb, yet again I think he will be doing what is right.
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Post by coach on Feb 15, 2019 20:12:20 GMT -8
The people who call him “racist” are the ones who were very much opposed to him from the beginning. That would’ve happened no matter what. He’s also evidently a misogynist, homophobic (Which is an irrational word), xenophobic, etc, etc. Those are the standard default descriptors for any GOP presidential candidate. I didn’t vote for him because I didn’t think he was temperamentaly suited for the job, and it turns out he’s not. But I thought at least he would be a more skilled negotiator. I had no idea how thin skinned he was and how unnecessarily combative. The odd thing is that I support most of what he’s trying to do, but my God he’s tempestuous . I think it was Winston Churchill who once said of Admiral King that “he’s a bull who brings his own china shop with him.“...............Luca I had no choice but to vote for him. I refused to vote for a socialist or an outright criminal. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 17, 2019 13:56:00 GMT -8
I agree. The dangerous precedent it sets far outweighs the dubious benefits. I sort of agree, here. i think this precedent has been set by several previous presidents who wanted to do what they wanted to do and Congress wasn’t inclined to give it to them. But I od agree the National Emergency is not the way to go... Nancy Pelosi has already telegraphed their intent: Some future, “progressive” president will declare a national emergency to fund a operations, or to confiscate all AR15’s (or all handguns)... she has inasmuch as guaranteed some future president of the democrat persuasion will, rightly or wrongly, point to Trump as breaking the ice for using the National Emergency declaration. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 17, 2019 15:30:47 GMT -8
On a related point, the Dems are all excited that Trump said "I didn't need to do this." I'm sure he will say he meant that it didn't have to come to this, had the Dems negotiated in good faith, to help solve the problem together. I don't see a legit argument the building a wall could in any way be considered an emergency. I do understand that there may be increased migrants at or near the border which could require emergency actions to stop them from entering. However, those actions would be more along the lines of human resource deployment v. construction crews. I'm all for border security and believe it needs to be accomplished now, but we can't argue out of both sides of our mouths when presidents usurp congress to move their agendas along. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 17, 2019 15:41:56 GMT -8
What "precedent" do you refer to...? National Emergencies have been declared about 58 times since the 1970's. 31 one of these are still enacted! I agree many executive orders can be weak and get easily replaced after vacating office. If you believe the issue of a wall is a bigger issue than most previous national emergencies then I could see you saying escalating it to bigger things but how is a wall precedent to.... say what?
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 18, 2019 8:48:26 GMT -8
I understand what SK80 is referring to, but the probable fact of the matter is, regardless of how many National Emergencies there have been, by whom, or for what... as Nancy Pelosi telegraphed in her rare display of clarear thinking, a future democrat president WILL nevertheless point to Trumps use of it, declare his or her own national emergency and push some personal agenda on us.
Take a look at most of those SK80 references from past presidents: very few of them, and none of them from the immediate past administration, really have anything to do with an emergency in THIS nation. Couple those precedents with the obvious fact that the U.S. Constitution has almost nothing to say and very little to infer about th proper use of such declarations and this gives the president another way to bypass Congress...
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 18, 2019 10:55:29 GMT -8
Davidsf is correct. The precedent that has been established is this: Another large leap forward in presidents legislating policy that is the direct responsibility of congress, merely because they can't otherwise get what they want.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 18, 2019 12:20:49 GMT -8
Yet then you would have to have Congress enact something to restrict the powers of a President... even worse likely.
I am looking more and more into this fact now, that every order by any other President was always for ANOTHER country safety, security, better interest. We now actually have a President doing something for THIS country and it's better interest. Congress has had decades to act. FAIL FAIL FAIL. Again somebody is taking the bulls by the horn. I a way even with all my concerns regarding Trump, deep down I feel he is looking out for ME!
I also want to add that the Republicans and even Trump are doing a bod job of bringing up what I see as the biggest issue here..., "SOVEREIGNTY"! With all the talking points, illegals and drugs and MS13 and citizenship and child trafficking and so on does anybody care about the sovereignty of this nation? The media fails on this the education system fails on this and in every Trump speech I scream at my TV to just mention "SOVEREIGNTY"!
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