Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 19, 2019 13:17:04 GMT -8
SK80 - yes, and it should be stopped. Protecting our borders is one of the few clearly enumerated responsibilities of our federal gov't. And yes...militarily if necessary.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 19, 2019 16:05:02 GMT -8
Yeah, that's my point. I believe a wall built to protect our security and sovereignty is a military project. It doesn't matter whether the invaders are carrying AK_47s, or rocks, bottles, pistols, knives, drugs or Hepatitis-C.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 19, 2019 18:29:42 GMT -8
Do any of you see it this way, that this illegal invasion of foreigners threatens the United States and it's sovereignty? Sovereignty is an important part of a nation state's government. Without it, the rights and liberties of its citizens are not fully protected by national or international standards. This being true, is the unlawful invasion of migrants and caravans a threat to our nation? I say "YES" it is. Thus giving power and authority to protect this sovereignty by any means. If military need be. Not to speak for MDDad, but I think this goes to the base of his question. i do agree with him, that even though there are dogs barking at our gate, I do wonder if Trump only calls it a military construction project...MAYBE even sent the troops down there ... so he can cover it with the Emergencies Powers Act. To me, it is nevertheless a stretch to call caravans from third world countries an “invasion”... I mean is our national safety really threatened? Seems to me our economy would,be better without the illegals, our public schools would be better off, our emergency rooms would be much more functional... but our safety? even given the number of crimes committed by illegals, I still think that is a stretch. however, I again have to point out, I do still believe the wall should be built.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 19, 2019 18:37:50 GMT -8
I'll put it to you the way President Trump did that twit of a reporter Jim Acosta......, paraphrasing, when Acosta challenged the President on the notion he is creating a false crisis..., In the front row of the rose garden sat a number of "Angel Moms", Trump tells Acosta to ask the mothers if he's manufacturing border crisis. Acosta quietly sat down in shame.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 19, 2019 20:14:53 GMT -8
Not to speak for MDDad, but I think this goes to the base of his question. i do agree with him, that even though there are dogs barking at our gate, I do wonder if Trump only calls it a military construction project...MAYBE even sent the troops down there ... so he can cover it with the Emergencies Powers Act. To me, it is nevertheless a stretch to call caravans from third world countries an “invasion”... I mean is our national safety really threatened? Seems to me our economy would,be better without the illegals, our public schools would be better off, our emergency rooms would be much more functional... but our safety? even given the number of crimes committed by illegals, I still think that is a stretch. however, I again have to point out, I do still believe the wall should be built. Irony here is I believe about 80% of Americans want secure borders. 80% - and count me as one of them as well. But I'd be a hypocrite if I accepted the notion of this being a military emergency that's solved by them building the first permanent wall in US Military history, when I was railing against Obama for using what I'll call a similar technicality to give us the ADA.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 19, 2019 20:27:17 GMT -8
I think matters of national security are on a higher level. The administration just won a ruling that said the Department of Homeland Security is still able to waive environmental regulations related to the wall.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Feb 19, 2019 21:03:42 GMT -8
I think there are some very valid concerns expressed here about the Executive usurping (a word that needs to be revived in civic discourse) the authority of Congress. It appears there are funds that Trump can use that are unrelated to the Emergency Declaration, so the building of more fencing should be proceeding. The Democrats now own the Open Borders obstructionist position, and every murder committed by someone here illegally will be a constant reminder to the public of that fact.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 20, 2019 0:27:47 GMT -8
I was surprised to learn that the military construction funds ($3.6 billion) are the only ones Trump needed to declare an emergency to get. The drug interdiction funds ($2.5 billion) and the Treasury's asset forfeiture fund ($.6 billion) didn't need an emergency declaration to access them. That adds up to $3.1 billion, plus the $1.375 billion in the budget agreement = $4.475 billion (not counting the $1.6 billion he got back in March 2018). Adding that in, the total available WITHOUT the emergency declaration is $6.075 billion. I'm thinking that Trump once again, suckered his opponents with a little misdirection. While they are busy trying to fight his emergency declaration in the courts, Trump calmly goes about the business of building the wall with that $6.075 billion not part of that emergency declaration. www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-moves-forward-with-wall-funding-despite-lawsuits/ar-BBTPeAw
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Feb 20, 2019 9:40:42 GMT -8
From this mornings LA TIMES...... sounds like a crisis to me..... and this is a reoccuring event..,
Trump prevails as Mexican officials stop caravan at Texas border & ship migrants to other cities LA Times ^ | February 20, 2019 | Molly HENNESSY-FISKE Posted on 2/20/2019, 6:43:24 AM by Beautiful_Gracious_Skies
Last week, a caravan of 1,800 Central American migrants arrived in this isolated Mexican border city, where police ushered them into a makeshift government shelter surrounded by chain-link fence.
As conditions at the shelter deteriorated, riots erupted. Migrants broke through security barriers and struggled with guards. Some threw pipes, tables, chairs and parts of a tent at Mexican officers. Migrant advocates and reporters were barred from the facility, which was surrounded by dozens of federal police in riot gear.
On the other side of the Rio Grande, in the sleepy town of Eagle Pass, Texas, 250 troops and scores of Border Patrol agents were sent to shore up defenses as President Trump vowed to stop this latest caravan.
For the moment, Trump appears to have gotten his way.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 20, 2019 10:55:05 GMT -8
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Feb 20, 2019 20:02:35 GMT -8
If the majority of Congress feels this is an abuse that is setting a dangerous precedent, then their recourse is to repeal or amend the 1976 NEA. I get the points made in the article. I also know that Jonah Goldberg is one of the leading NeverTrumpers over at NRO, so I take that into account as well.
IMHO, the situation at the border justifies extraordinary measures. Whether utilizing the NEA is the way to go remains to be seen. The concern from the Right over a possible abuse of power by Trump is at the very least refreshing, since not a single voice on the Left ever expressed so much as a hint of concern over Obama's multiple and extra-legal extensions of power through the Executive branch.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 20, 2019 20:27:38 GMT -8
If the majority of Congress feels this is an abuse that is setting a dangerous precedent, then their recourse is to repeal or amend the 1976 NEA. I get the points made in the article. I also know that Jonah Goldberg is one of the leading NeverTrumpers over at NRO, so I take that into account as well. IMHO, the situation at the border justifies extraordinary measures. Whether utilizing the NEA is the way to go remains to be seen. The concern from the Right over a possible abuse of power by Trump is at the very least refreshing, since not a single voice on the Left ever expressed so much as a hint of concern over Obama's multiple and extra-legal extensions of power through the Executive branch. I didn't know that about Goldberg. Yikes...maybe I'm a closet liberal. Biggest concern here remains the long term impact of this. Risk / reward for future election. Seems like once again, he could be a little more strategic on the political front. The NYC / Amazon, Covington Kids, Jussie Smollett, Green New Deal pushback by Dems should ALL be dominating the news cycle. Instead...it's the very questionable use of the NEA to push one of his agenda items. But again...what the heck do I know? He's the POTUS, and I'm not.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Feb 20, 2019 20:33:35 GMT -8
Honestly, it feels like the Emergency declaration is already old news after five days. The media is like a cat chasing a laser light. After 48 hours at best they are on to the next Trump "outrage." Next week will be the long-awaited Mueller report, then Michael Cohen's testimony before Congress (all a set-up to help him reduce his sentence in exchange for dirtying up Trump). Each will be yet another big fat Nothingburger.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 5, 2019 20:25:45 GMT -8
Now don't I feel sheepish in light of the latest numbers reported by the NYT no less.
Bick wrong...Trump right.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 5, 2019 20:31:33 GMT -8
Bick have you not learned your lesson like Hillary did... #Winning !
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