davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 27, 2020 11:17:07 GMT -8
Rethinking this a bit. Once a wall is built, what's stopping the tunnels? Further, isn't the wall similar to the notion that regulating guns will stop gun violence? Attempt at physical prevention v. punishing law violators? Seems we're arguing out of both sides of our mouth. Tunnels will be stopped by graboids from the movie Tremors.And yes, a wall is like regulating guns, or arresting hookers, or outlawing liquor. YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE THE DEMAND FOR THEIR LABOR AND THE OTHER INDUCEMENTS TO COME HERE. If there were no jobs or free benefits waiting for them here, very few illegal aliens would bother crossing the border. Not exactly. no rational person has ever suggested a border wall will stop the flow of illegals into the country. you are right, however, if what you are noting is, OTHER things have to (also) be implemented if, unlike gun control, the intent is to actually resolve the issue. In addition to more control over who gets in, we also have to, as you do say, manage (meaning “reduce”) the benefits and entitlements illegals receive once they get here. One such step is being enacted indirectly through the courts as the various lawsuits against the Trump Administration’s proscription against federal funds to sanctuary/welcoming states start rendering favorable judgments. to your point, recall when Arizona cracked down on employers who had illegals on the payrolls: Illegals literally fled the state... but like trying to press your thumb on a bead of mercury, once the pressure was released, they came flooding back in. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 27, 2020 11:41:14 GMT -8
There doesn't seem to be much of a consensus here either.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 27, 2020 15:17:04 GMT -8
Rethinking this a bit. Once a wall is built, what's stopping the tunnels? Further, isn't the wall similar to the notion that regulating guns will stop gun violence? Attempt at physical prevention v. punishing law violators? Seems we're arguing out of both sides of our mouth. I don't know what the government's walls have, but the private wall has sensors to the detect digging of tunnels. The fact that there have been tunnels under existing government walls makes me figure that those older fences don't have those sensors. Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. This reminds me of those videos showing people climbing a border wall. Sure it can be done, but how many of these mamitas or abuelas can do that, especially with little ones in tow. Ladders? Sure, it's possible to bring a ladder across the Rio Grande. Might be a little unwieldy getting them across the river, but it's possible. Ladders and tunnels are not needed where there are no walls, so why cross where ther ARE walls? And did you notice in the video, the border patrol's mobile platform on scissors? With that new wall, they can see the entire length of that fence. Can you get that ladder across the river without being seen there? Maybe...maybe not. (The wall is lit up at night also). Again, it won't stop everything, but it makes crossing and smuggling harder, and border enforcement easier. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 27, 2020 16:16:49 GMT -8
First of all, the border is about 1954 miles long. Secondly, you can see that there were already barriers on about half of that 1954 miles. Third, of the half that doesn't show any barriers, it's generally conceded that a wall isn't necessary on a large part of that stretch, because natural barriers exist there. So far, Trump has concentrated on repairing and/or replacing useless barriers. You can say that's not new wall, but when what you're replacing looks like the barrier in this photo, I'm sorry...that's new wall. I'm not sure how you determined how much of what was shown on the map was after 2017, and how you can tell how much progress has happened since that map came out. It's not going to take 130 years to finish, and the replacement walls already being built are certainly going to have a positive effect on our border security. The progress on entirely new fences, would go a lot faster if, (as the guy in the video says), the government would adopt the stance of the private "We Built the Wall" group, and build right on the river instead of trying to build it a mile inland, which cuts farmers' land in half.  |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 27, 2020 16:19:44 GMT -8
Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. This reminds me of those videos showing people climbing a border wall. Sure it can be done, but how many of these mamitas or abuelas can do that, especially with little ones in tow. I must have mentioned before, that for four years I spent three days a week in Mexicali almost every week. One of our favorite restaurants for dinner was essentially right across the street from the border wall, and there were dudes going over that wall by the dozens almost every night. The whole thing comes down to a cost-benefit decision. Is it worth billions and billions of dollars to just make it "harder" to cross the border? |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Feb 27, 2020 16:31:50 GMT -8
Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. This reminds me of those videos showing people climbing a border wall. Sure it can be done, but how many of these mamitas or abuelas can do that, especially with little ones in tow. I must have mentioned before, that for four years I spent three days a week in Mexicali almost every week. One of our favorite restaurants for dinner was essentially right across the street from the border wall, and there were dudes going over that wall by the dozens almost every night. The whole thing comes down to a cost-benefit decision. Is it worth billions and billions of dollars to just make it "harder" to cross the border? Obviously a lot of us think it IS worth it, otherwise the 250 K of us wouldn't be donating our money to the gofundme page, to do just that. p.s. The wall will be completed long before the California bullet train will. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Feb 27, 2020 16:47:49 GMT -8
I must have mentioned before, that for four years I spent three days a week in Mexicali almost every week. One of our favorite restaurants for dinner was essentially right across the street from the border wall, and there were dudes going over that wall by the dozens almost every night. The whole thing comes down to a cost-benefit decision. Is it worth billions and billions of dollars to just make it "harder" to cross the border? Obviously a lot of us think it IS worth it, otherwise the 250 K of us wouldn't be donating our money to the gofundme page, to do just that. The more I'm reading this, the more this feels like "at least we're doing something about it". That is the same argument the left is using for their advocacy of banning assault-style weapons as the solution for gun violence. Same playbook from the right, too. Whenever an illegal alien commits a crime, it's emphasized by the right as proof positive we need to build a wall...just like when there's a killing, the left drones on how the NRA is killing us all. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Feb 27, 2020 16:54:27 GMT -8
p.s. The wall will be completed long before the California bullet train will. The wall will have a lot more people riding it too. And like I said, at the rate we're going, the wall be done in 130 years. By then, I suspect the bullet train will be just a few miles of rusty tracks. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Feb 28, 2020 20:17:25 GMT -8
Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. Exactly (standing ovation for 3 minutes). In addition, it is possible to have multiple strategies going on at the same time. Building a wall does not mean we can't do anything else to stop illegal aliens from entering the country. |
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Post by vilepagan on Feb 29, 2020 4:30:41 GMT -8
Nobody is saying that banning assault weapons will stop all gun violence but the harder you make it to get an assault rifle...
Funny how that argument got shot down when I made it but you repeat it here without any sense of irony.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Feb 29, 2020 10:42:29 GMT -8
Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. This reminds me of those videos showing people climbing a border wall. Sure it can be done, but how many of these mamitas or abuelas can do that, especially with little ones in tow. I must have mentioned before, that for four years I spent three days a week in Mexicali almost every week. One of our favorite restaurants for dinner was essentially right across the street from the border wall, and there were dudes going over that wall by the dozens almost every night. The whole thing comes down to a cost-benefit decision. Is it worth billions and billions of dollars to just make it "harder" to cross the border? You understate it’s effectiveness. Yes, the point is to make it harder, but it also slows the criminal down so the Border Patrol has more time to respond. While it will not be (nor is it intended to be) 100% effective at stopping illegal immigration, its real value is enabling those charged with protecting our borders to do their jobs: For example, there is no mention ever made of the graded roadways alongside the wall also speeds the Border Patrol to where they need to be... or of the lighting along the border, or the other measures built into the wall. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 1, 2020 14:31:28 GMT -8
Nobody is saying that banning assault weapons will stop all gun violence but the harder you make it to get an assault rifle... Horrible analogy. When you ban assault weapons, you stop law abiding citizens from owning them. Law abiding citizens are not the ones committing gun violence, hence you aren't solving the problem. When you build a wall, you are stopping criminals (illegal aliens) from committing the crime. Building a wall has no effect on a law abiding person who wants to enter the country. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 1, 2020 21:16:12 GMT -8
Nobody is saying the wall will stop everything, but the harder you make it, the fewer successful crossings occur. Exactly (standing ovation for 3 minutes). In addition, it is possible to have multiple strategies going on at the same time. Building a wall does not mean we can't do anything else to stop illegal aliens from entering the country. If walls or fences weren't effective we wouldn't put them around our own property. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 6, 2020 12:59:00 GMT -8
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 22, 2020 7:34:10 GMT -8
Well any consolation, or an issue so spot on correct as viewed by the right, the left and the "progressives" have hardly a defense any more on "OPEN BORDERS" or what was it...? "Hands Across Borders"? WHAT! Wash those hands...! Americans now have a new slogan..., "Viruses Across Borders"!!
I suspect this is a massive hit to the Democrat platform. Much of their idiocy will come to light.... more unknown people flooding their borders? HA! More tax dollars we don't have for non citizens? HA HA !! Lock downs and the right to defend yourselves? SECOND AMENDMENT !!
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