Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 5, 2019 7:18:30 GMT -8
Border Security and immigration, while related, are separate matters. I've got to believe most Americans support legal immigration, and only the loudest leftists are of the open border ilk. Sowell's post on this is spot on.
The thing I've wondered is why amnesty has been the 3rd rail with the GOP, and why it takes so damn long to process immigration requests. Truth is, I really don't know what the rub here is with immigration reform. Seems like a simple enough issue to resolve.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 5, 2019 8:14:42 GMT -8
The simplest explanation for all of the plethora missed opportunities for the GOP to resolve this is, they have a vested interest (too) in the status quo.
As long as I’ve been following this, I have seen no other more plausible explanation. Unfortunately, this came to me from a liberal democrat.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Mar 5, 2019 20:07:45 GMT -8
Even the New York Times admits that the border is a 'breaking point' with the huge upsurge in illegal crossings. Wow.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 5, 2019 20:30:30 GMT -8
It's not simple Bick when the left, Dems whateva's can spin it to their electoral advantage. IMHO this has been a crisis for DECADES!
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 9, 2019 22:16:11 GMT -8
Never really understood why not make immigrants citizens quicker if they want to be. All the different classifications / work visas / follow up with expiration seems like a whole lot of bureaucracy.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 10, 2019 11:56:18 GMT -8
Never really understood why not make immigrants citizens quicker if they want to be. All the different classifications / work visas / follow up with expiration seems like a whole lot of bureaucracy. I believe the reason is that immigration policy is set to benefit the nation, not those migrating here. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 10, 2019 12:17:28 GMT -8
I agree, immigrants have historically been expected to become "Americans" before they become citizens, and that takes time. Apparently, that expectation is no longer in vogue. And if naturalization were quicker and simpler, Republicans might never again win a national election.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 10, 2019 13:22:51 GMT -8
Never really understood why not make immigrants citizens quicker if they want to be. All the different classifications / work visas / follow up with expiration seems like a whole lot of bureaucracy. See, THAT is the other part of all this. All well and good to insist they go back and wait in line to do,it legally, but the legal migration is hopelessly mired in red tape and bureaucracy, so yes, it needs to be fixed (too). |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 10, 2019 15:02:57 GMT -8
I agree. Speed up LEGAL migration.
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not4u13
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Post by not4u13 on Mar 10, 2019 16:01:48 GMT -8
I agree. Speed up LEGAL migration. That's the thing though. If you speed up the process of immigration requests, most of these people that are coming here illegally, would now be coming here legally. There is no reasonable path to legal immigration across the southern border. I have long advocated for complete immigration reform, but a lot of folks in the GOP have run scared from this idea. Whichever party decides to grant amnesty to those already here that have committed no other crime but to have come here illegally in the first place. Whichever party creates a reasonable path to immigration. Whichever party really does knuckle down and improve border security using reasonable methods. Whichever party does those things would likely get the vote of immigrants for decades to come. I'm convinced there is something else at play here. For some, it is white supremacy. A lot of people believe that is what MAGA really means. A return to white power. There is a cogent moral, safety or economic argument for why we don't solve this problem. It's got to be about power. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 10, 2019 16:41:58 GMT -8
I agree. Speed up LEGAL migration. ...If you speed up the process of immigration requests, most of these people that are coming here illegally, would now be coming here legally... ...I'm convinced there is something else at play here. For some, it is white supremacy. A lot of people believe that is what MAGA really means. A return to white power... There is a cogent moral, safety or economic argument for why we don't solve this problem. It's got to be about power... I wholeheartedly disagree with all 3 of those statements. There is a majority of illegal aliens (I would put it at 60 - 70%) who have no interest in being legal US citizens. Coming here is nothing more than a way to make money & send it back to their family in Mexico or whatever Central American country they are from. For them, the US is an ATM machine, they don't need no stinkin' rules for them to get some cash while they can. They have no interest in our country, our culture our way of life. They love their countries, not ours. For those who support Trump, MAGA has nothing to do about race. It is about putting America first, other countries second, the opposite of what we have put up with from the "blame America" crowd. It doesn't mean taking the country back to a time where Jim Crow laws ruled the South and women couldn't vote, it means taking the things that made our country great (freedom, independence) and making them a priority. Most non-MAGA folks have a false perception of what kind of person is a MAGA person. In the same way that ignorant "drug free" folks may incorrectly believe that pot will make you crazy and go out & commit horrendous crimes, non-MAGA people believe that those wearing a red hat are ready to kill non white people at any moment. That is why the Jussie Smollet hoax fooled the media, they have an incorrect image of the person who wears a MAGA hat. The reason illegal immigration hasn't been solved despite public sentiment to do so is because elected officials on the left want to pad resident numbers to increase the number of representatives in Congress & electoral votes for presidential elections while elected officials on the right are receive large contributions from some business factions who want cheap labor. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 10, 2019 20:23:53 GMT -8
What would lead you to believe that I have a problem with that? I'm a law and order guy. I've got no problem with legal immigration.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 10, 2019 23:26:14 GMT -8
Make em legal, get them paying taxes.
Here's the thing though. Once again, by the dems pushing for wide open immigration, the additional labor hurts the lower end of the wage spectrum by virtue of additional low priced labor supply. They just can't figure out why wages won't go up.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 11, 2019 7:39:12 GMT -8
So yesterday I had our gardener whom we have had for over 20 years trim our trees which we do once a year to please our neighbors so to not obstruct their views, any way he brought with him a family member to help with the job. They are latino guys or Mexican decent and as we often due try and communicate (yes after 20 years here in US their english is still iffy) and usually end up joking around in our two languages or lets call it spanglish! Yet this time the relative guy say to me something like "you don't understand Spanish"? I responded in my usual "poquito espanol" reply and in turn he smacks back with confidence and directness at me it's "necesario" for you! As if its necessary now I speak Spanish if I am going to survive and live here.
Most of you know me as a OC CDM guy and I am, grew up there, my parents are still there in our original home from the 70's and I am there at least twice a week. However I live in LA, an LA where I am in the minority now. And I have this observation or question I throw out when the topic of immigration or illegal immigration gets heated and i ask, "Do you think if I randomly gathered 100 latinos here in LA and asked them to vote on this question what would be the breakdown of those votes? Question: On the ballot tomorrow the state of California will vote to make Spanish the official language of the state what would be your vote, For or Against"? I contend it would be a LANDSLIDE in favor. My experience again yesterday confirms this belief. So for me this is about my culture. One with maybe a short history here in California historically, yet non the less my culture, call it "Western, Anglo, European what you may. And this to some and more so those in the media, it tags me as "racist".
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 11, 2019 8:20:58 GMT -8
I don’t agree that speeding up the process will just bring an influx of legal immigrants.
Part of fixing the legal process is returning to (the actual legal process) that not allowing just anyone who wants to come. Our immigration law stipulates we only allow so-many in, and those we allow in have to provide the United States with a benefit. (I believe ... bona fide ... refugees are in a different process).
As I’ve said many times, any fix to our legal immigration system has to start with just returning to what the law already imposes, THEN let’s see where the leaks are and fix them.
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