Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jun 9, 2023 6:18:35 GMT -8
I'll say this, I really had no idea how deep this swamp stuff really is. Comey running cover for Hillary with the extreme carelessness instead of gross negligence was outrageous to me.
Truth is, because of Trump's consistent childish insults, he lost credibility so I figured he was BS-ing.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jun 9, 2023 6:31:35 GMT -8
If I hear one more time about how Trump "drained the swamp", when the swamp is deeper and more sinister than ever, I'm gonna lose it.What do you have left to lose!  |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Jun 9, 2023 6:46:53 GMT -8
I really had no idea how deep this swamp stuff really is. But I thought Trump drained it, so how can this be? |
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Post by nictoe on Jun 9, 2023 7:40:48 GMT -8
If Biden and Trump are the nominees, who’s to say Americans won’t decide on another option?
Peggy Noonan
June 8, 2023
Here is a small thought that arose from the big firing at CNN.
Shifts in personal fortune and unexpected turns remind us of what we know in the abstract and forget in the particular. They remind us that life is not, as a friend once reflected, a painting. In a painting the curtain doesn’t move. In life it moves, often softly but sometimes, in a storm, wildly.
They remind us of rise and fall. Life is dynamic—fate, chance and character play big, determinative roles. We go through the daily grind thinking nothing ever changes, but life is change. Sometimes it’s barely perceptible; sometimes it goes boom.
“Expect the unexpected.” That was the attitudinal advice of the veteran newsman Harrison Salisbury to the young then joining his profession. Born in 1908, he’d covered World War II, Moscow after the war, Vietnam. You have to hold your mind open to the constant possibility of sharp turns.
As this is written, Donald Trump is said to be a target of a criminal investigation by the Justice Department. We don’t know how broad or persuasive any charging document would be, how soon an indictment might be handed up. We don’t know if any information released might leave a Trump-inclined voter saying, “That’s it, I’m done.” Or if an indictment would increase Mr. Trump’s popularity, as legal charges have in the past.
Mr. Trump may be sailing unimpeded to the Republican nomination. He may be cruisin’ for a bruisin’.
But here is the potential political surprise that is on my mind. For months people have been talking about a serious third party entering the 2024 presidential race. I believe that if the major party nominees are Joe Biden and Mr. Trump—but only if they are—a third party will certainly enter the race and put up candidates for president and vice president. And if a few crucial things break its way—they have to get on almost every state ballot; and put forward a solid ticket, not a brilliant one but solid, two accomplished people, one from each party, presumably political veterans, whom people could see, hear, and think they could do the job—they’d have an even or better than even chance of surprising history by winning.
If they can do those two difficult things, and avoid scandal and total incompetence, they could do it. I don’t know other people who think this, but I do.
The biggest political group in America isn’t Democrats or Republicans; it is the unaffiliated. Gallup, which does a monthly poll on political affiliation, reports a record number of Americans say they are politically independent. In March Gallup put the share of independents at 49%—pretty much the same as the two parties put together. A Gallup analyst told Axios that while it’s not unusual for the young to declare themselves independent more than the old, it is unusual that as Gen X and Millenials get older they seem to be staying independent and not joining a party, possibly out of aversion to a perceived stigma of partisanship.
An NBC poll in April reported 70% of voters don’t want Mr. Biden to run for re-election, and 60% don’t want Mr. Trump to run again. It said about half of Democrats don’t want Mr. Biden. An AP-NORC poll found 44% of Republicans don’t want Mr. Trump as their nominee.
These are huge numbers, and if you believe them—they roughly comport with my observations, so I do—then the predicates for a successful third party are there.
But here’s where my mind always goes: Ross Perot launched his independent presidential bid in 1992, when America was a more normal country, one that colored more within the lines, and not as furious and polarized as now. Even then certain fault lines were emerging—on trade, globalism, and the growing distance between elite perceptions of what was real and important, and those of common folk. Perot was a business visionary, the founder of a great company, Electronic Data Systems. He was public-spirited and blunt-talking. In June 1992 he was leading both George Bush and Bill Clinton. But his campaign was hapless and gaffe-filled, and he was unpredictable. He dropped out of the race, re-entered in the fall, said operatives were trying to spy on him, and by the end it was pretty much out there that Ross Perot was slightly crazy.
Even with all that, Perot got almost 20% of the vote. Twenty percent when they thought he might be a little nuts. With that in mind I can quite imagine a competent third party now getting 35% of the vote to the other guys’ 32% and 33%, say. What would happen then? Most likely, no candidate would receive a sufficient Electoral College vote. The election would go to the House, causing uncertainty that would at some point be resolved. It would be real edge-of-the-seat stuff in a nation that already has too much edge-of-the-seat stuff, but also seems to like it.
The group No Labels has so far got a third party on five ballots. A spokesman said it hopes to be on 29 by the end of the year and 34 not long after. No Labels plans to hold a convention in April in Dallas to announce a ticket, and final ballot efforts will be led by the nominees. So far, state to state, it’s been hand to hand. Democrats and their aligned groups see a third party as an existential threat. Trump people aren’t in the game yet, but if and when Mr. Trump seems assured of the GOP nomination they likely will be. It’s unknown and unclear which party would lose most through a third party challenge. My guess: both more or less evenly.
Third-party supporters always have a reputation as political dilettantes—affluent people with too much time on their hands. They’re slammed as unrealistic, the kind of people who’d order off-menu at a bad restaurant and assume for some reason the food will be better. Actually in the past when thinking about them I’ve been reminded of what JFK said, musingly, about businessmen and union leaders. Business executives he met with were well-educated, culturally conversant, sophisticated—but strangely clueless about politics. Union leaders were unlettered and crude but knew everything about politics, down to the precinct level.
Third-party people like to get together and fantasize about their dream ticket. They should be hyperfocused instead on getting on ballots. And they should stop seeing themselves as the world sees them, nice dreamy centrists. They should take themselves and their position more seriously.
It will be hard to get the ticket right. Why not just throw the question open to a convention? Because you probably want seasoned and attractive political veterans as your nominees, but the moment prospective candidates come forward they’re dead within their own party. They’ll probably put themselves forward only if a nomination is sure.
A lot has to be done right to make a third party real. But I don’t know why people dismiss the idea. Life is surprise. In life the curtain moves, and in a storm it moves wildly.
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Jun 10, 2023 7:03:43 GMT -8
Draining the swamp would start with a 3rd party.
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
Posts: 859
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Post by tarmac on Jun 12, 2023 7:36:14 GMT -8
Looks like OJ has a comment on things.
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billb
Senior Eminence Grise
Posts: 3,082
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Post by billb on Jun 12, 2023 8:37:33 GMT -8
OK, OJ agrees with me. I gotta re-evaluate my politic positions. ...... OK, we both are right. We are falling into a fascist tyranny. Thanks Dems....
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Post by nictoe on Jul 14, 2023 10:49:29 GMT -8
They're fleeing like rats from the Trump & Santos campaigns !
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jul 15, 2023 5:50:52 GMT -8
This has to be one of the most fascinating things I have ever witness in American political, lets say journalism. If you haven't watched Tucker Carlsons interviews of GOP candidates this past week, he has single handedly annihilated the likes of Pence and Hutchinson exposing them like no media outlet or journalist could have ever had. Tucker in his questioning has begun a series of RHINO edits. Any wonder he was a threat at FOX (Corporate Media)?
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
Posts: 859
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Post by tarmac on Jul 25, 2023 9:35:35 GMT -8
What she said.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jul 29, 2023 7:21:02 GMT -8
If your not with or for Trump in 2024, then who is your choice to fight the opposition, opposing party..., the "Deep State"?
Watch this ad, ballz 2 the wallz boyz..... thats what its gonna take.
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billb
Senior Eminence Grise
Posts: 3,082
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Post by billb on Jul 30, 2023 16:58:38 GMT -8
Great minds SK.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Jul 30, 2023 18:18:14 GMT -8
If your not with or for Trump in 2024, then who is your choice to fight the opposition, opposing party..., the "Deep State"? I suppose somebody who hasn't already had four years in the highest office in the land and didn't make much progress "fighting the deep state" or "draining the swamp". |
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
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Post by SK80 on Jul 30, 2023 18:48:23 GMT -8
If your not with or for Trump in 2024, then who is your choice to fight the opposition, opposing party..., the "Deep State"? I suppose somebody who hasn't already had four years in the highest office in the land and didn't make much progress "fighting the deep state" or "draining the swamp". Again bruh... who is your warrior? Seriously, who is gonna fight the DEEPER fact we now know of the state? Again, seriously, you say Trump failed, would a second round get it done? Who else gonna be that guy r gal? Just want to know where you stand since we exchange daily thoughts and vibes..... Honestly, even if you believe or even its fact Trumps attempt in round 1 didn't defeat the DEEP STATE who is gonna win round 2? I'll finish on this thought....., should Trump win again, this round 2 will be supported for 4 years of a dominant SUPREME COURT.... so again who do you want making legislation? MDDad's Endorsement 2024 ____________ Pres., __________ VP..... <~~~~ Fill in Blanks |
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