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Post by vilepagan on Jun 5, 2021 4:20:44 GMT -8
Dave, please. I can only derail this discussion if you respond to me. Feel free to put me on ignore and forward your defense of Critical Race Theory. This thread has run for 8 1/2 days and there as been no thoughtful defense of the theory yet. Come on, MD Dad… that is a weak sauce deflection of a vile pagan caliber. Forget it: I did not expect you to accept criticism anyway. Go ahead on down your rabbit home. I’ll just pretend we’re talking about biology. Aww Dave, please don't drag me into your ignorance and ineptitude. I haven't even jumped into the discussion, I'm just watching you pretend to make an argument. Carry on, you're doing fine. ROFL. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jun 5, 2021 4:24:30 GMT -8
Come on, MD Dad… that is a weak sauce deflection of a vile pagan caliber. Forget it: I did not expect you to accept criticism anyway. Go ahead on down your rabbit home. I’ll just pretend we’re talking about biology. Aww Dave, please don't drag me into your ignorance and ineptitude. I haven't even jumped into the discussion, I'm just watching you pretend to make an argument. Carry on, you're doing fine. ROFL. Yeah, I do notice you stay away from Bick's attempt to arrive at some level of understanding. Being you're so full of knowledge on any topic, I had expected you to be front and center. No, I'm not doing fine at all: I am having difficulty finding cogent argument in favor of CRT. I could really use some help from a CRT savant like you. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jun 5, 2021 10:57:38 GMT -8
I don't disagree with your points. What are the current human races, and how were they decided? You didn't agree or disagree with Linnaeus' classifications. Along that same vein, what race do the children belong to with a mother whose parents are Europaeus albus: European white & Americanus rubescens: American reddish and father is Asiaticus fuscus: Asian tawny & Africanus niger: African black? I don't know what the "current human races" are or how they were decided, and I'm not sure that's relevant. There are many things we can't specifically define or provide with differentiating criteria, yet we know they exist. If you take a person from Sweden whose ancestors have lived there for a thousand years, and take a second person from Zimbabwe whose ancestors have lived there for a thousand years, you would have a tough time convincing anyone there aren't very obvious racial differences. Races exist, even though their labeling can be difficult, confusing or uncomfortable. What's more important is how we react to those differences, whether or not we assign superiority and inferiority based on those differences, and whether or not we act on those outdated beliefs to disadvantage one race to the benefit of another. That's racism, and that's abhorrent, but it's also illegal. We have the freedom to believe whatever we want, and there is no way to legislate against human biases. What we don't have is the freedom to act on those outdated beliefs to disadvantage one race to the benefit of another, because that kind of activity has been rightly against the law since the mid-1960's. If we want to debate racism, let's do so, but let's not pretend there are no races. Race and racism are not the same thing. I suspect the term Critical Race Theory was intentionally not christened Critical Racism Theory as an attempt to make the two terms look interchangeable. I was planning on trying to understand the perspective of CRT proponents by evaluating each of their tenets before I decided how much merit it has or doesn't. After looking into the origins of the classification of race, it seems a couple hundred years ago, Linnaeus decided it was important to formally define people by race. It seems geography and observations of the traits of those people played a large role in his classifications. Here in the US, the predominance of mixed races makes those traits a lot less about genetics, and a lot more about how they are viewed. It doesn't mean you CAN'T determine the genetic makeup, it is just not the best way to determine race from a practical standpoint in dealing with racism. Can you agree with that? |
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billb
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Post by billb on Jun 7, 2021 22:50:37 GMT -8
Will there be a race war in the near future?  Her comments were disturbing, but the comments under the Zoom Meeting were even more disturbing. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jun 7, 2021 22:57:26 GMT -8
Now that I highly doubt. Crap, they can't even tell what gender they are let alone which race they choose to belong to.
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billb
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Post by billb on Jun 10, 2021 18:00:44 GMT -8
This is about a "Published Journal Article" NYC psychoanalyst diagnoses ‘Whiteness’ as a ‘malignant, parasitic-like condition’ A White psychoanalyst and author sparked a firestorm on social media after describing Whiteness as a “malignant, parasitic-like condition” in a study published by the Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association. Dr. Donald Moss, who also teaches at the New York Psychoanalytic Society and Institute, according to the New York Post, argued in a piece titled, “On Having Whiteness,” that “there is not yet a permanent cure” for “parasitic” Whiteness. “Whiteness is a condition one first acquires and then one has — a malignant, parasitic-like condition to which ‘white’ people have a particular susceptibility,” reads an abstract of the article on Sage Journals. “The condition is foundational, generating characteristic ways of being in one’s body, in one’s mind, and in one’s world. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jun/10/donald-moss-nyc-psychoanalyst-says-whiteness-a-mal/ |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jun 11, 2021 6:16:15 GMT -8
So when is this debate going to start? Are the "pro's" finding it difficult to defend a "theory" based on emotion?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jun 11, 2021 6:26:06 GMT -8
So when is this debate going to start? Are the "pro's" finding it difficult to defend a "theory" based on emotion? Was waiting on you to see where, or if, we've got any common ground to even have a debate...
I was planning on trying to understand the perspective of CRT proponents by evaluating each of their tenets before I decided how much merit it has or doesn't. After looking into the origins of the classification of race, it seems a couple hundred years ago, Linnaeus decided it was important to formally define people by race. It seems geography and observations of the traits of those people played a large role in his classifications. Here in the US, the predominance of mixed races makes those traits a lot less about genetics, and a lot more about how they are viewed. It doesn't mean you CAN'T determine the genetic makeup, it is just not the best way to determine race from a practical standpoint in dealing with racism. Can you agree with that? |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jun 11, 2021 7:42:12 GMT -8
So when is this debate going to start? Are the "pro's" finding it difficult to defend a "theory" based on emotion? I started it 2 weeks ago. You had to argue over the concept of racism and would not agree to any perspective but yours. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jun 11, 2021 8:08:57 GMT -8
Here in the US, the predominance of mixed races makes those traits a lot less about genetics, and a lot more about how they are viewed. It doesn't mean you CAN'T determine the genetic makeup, it is just not the best way to determine race from a practical standpoint in dealing with racism. Can you agree with that? Yes, but I just believe that the blurring of races in modern America, or the fact that it's difficult to define and differentiate between individual races to utter perfection, is not particularly germane to the debate of racism. If we were to discuss the visceral fear and hatred that some people have of cobras, we don't have to agree on the exact genotype differences of the various species of cobras. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jun 11, 2021 8:13:35 GMT -8
I started it 2 weeks ago. You had to argue over the concept of racism and would not agree to any perspective but yours. I didn't argue over the concept of racism. In fact, we never even got to that concept, instead bogging down on minutae over the specific number and differences of races. One is a biological discussion, while the other is a sociological, psychological and political one. So thanks, but I think I'm done. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jun 11, 2021 11:37:20 GMT -8
I started it 2 weeks ago. You had to argue over the concept of racism and would not agree to any perspective but yours. I didn't argue over the concept of racism. In fact, we never even got to that concept, instead bogging down on minutae over the specific number and differences of races. One is a biological discussion, while the other is a sociological, psychological and political one. So thanks, but I think I'm done. regrettably, you were done before you started. Inability to agree with anyone but yourself is terminal to any real argument. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jun 11, 2021 12:00:29 GMT -8
Or maybe the unwillingness to agree with anyone but you is terminal to any real argument.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jun 11, 2021 15:06:14 GMT -8
Or maybe the unwillingness to agree with anyone but you is terminal to any real argument. Yes, exactly what you did. Well-put. First step toward recovery is acknowledging you have a problem. NOW, can you actually let it go and actually, you know, speak to the topic? |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jun 11, 2021 15:15:54 GMT -8
NOW, can you actually let it go and actually, you know, speak to the topic? You haven't. What is your defense of CRT? |
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