Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 31, 2022 9:27:57 GMT -8
To have no geographic boundary AND no faith requirement is a pretty big advantage to schools that do have those rules. I agree. That's a major advantage. But is it not also a major advantage when publics offer everyone free tuition while privates charge for tuition, sports participation, books, uniforms and iPads? As a rule, it's hard to argue that point. But I'm guessing the difference making elite athletes wouldn't be subject to those costs you're referring to. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2022 9:55:51 GMT -8
I agree. That's a major advantage. But is it not also a major advantage when publics offer everyone free tuition while privates charge for tuition, sports participation, books, uniforms and iPads? free tuition or funds for pension obligations? you often use this line but if you really saw what funding goes to the kids in public school you would take a different look at that statement. You are correct, if the state sends a school roughly $20K for each student, and the school decides to funnel $18K of that amount to teacher and administrator perks, that is indeed another discussion. But the bottom line remains the same -- public school students don't pay for things that private school students do. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2022 9:59:33 GMT -8
As a rule, it's hard to argue that point. But I'm guessing the difference making elite athletes wouldn't be subject to those costs you're referring to. If you're going to make that argument, I hope you're also willing to concede that many "difference making elite athletes" at many public schools don't necessarily live in those school's attendance boundaries. The truth is that there are rules broken and deals made on both sides. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 31, 2022 10:34:22 GMT -8
The xfer rules for all publics are pretty clear. If you don't get an inter-district xfer before your freshman year, you have to move into the district boundaries, or get a hardship xfer. Screw any of that up, and you're forfeiting games.
An equitable fix would apply a geographic boundary, even if it's larger, to privates. Would you agree with this?
Does Mater Dei have an expectation of students being faith-based?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2022 11:26:09 GMT -8
The xfer rules for all publics are pretty clear. If you don't get an inter-district xfer before your freshman year, you have to move into the district boundaries, or get a hardship xfer. Screw any of that up, and you're forfeiting games. I think you're being an idealist, conflating transfer rules with transfer realities. I can name any number of players at Edison who did not live in the HBUSD. Long Beach Poly has a long history of kids living in the I.E. And there are many other examples. I can't help but wonder sometimes how much digging it would take to determine that some Griffin athletes live outside the Los Alamitos Unified School District. The grift is too easy not to be used: The family reports an actual or fictitious home address to the school, the school certifies that they have verified the address, and the CIF rubber stamps their approval. That would be an equitable fix only if you impose a similar fix to the public schools' free tuition advantage. Are you up for that? Not necessarily, but all enrolling families need to have an expectation that they will receive a faith-based education with four years of religion classes heavy on Catholic doctrine, frequent school Masses, school prayer, religious ceremonies, and other similar things. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 31, 2022 15:11:10 GMT -8
Seriously, nice try having an honest conversation with all this but I still fall of my high chair when some here try and make an argument that all things are equal, if they were we wouldn't be having this conversation, plain and simple. The difference lets say between a top Trinity and a top Freeway or Pacific Coast league is not be any means of chance, randomness, or luck of the geographical law, free tuition or no tuition or freaking tax funded tuition. Knock off the non-sense, recruits, transfers, paid tuition we all know it takes a bit of it all to get to the pinnacle that some schools have mastered. I'll go back to what P Fate brought up, "randomness". If there was such a thing we would be having a much different conversation today. There is nothing random any longer in the new era balance of power in HSF.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2022 15:24:48 GMT -8
Seriously, nice try having an honest conversation with all this but I still fall of my high chair when some here try and make an argument that all things are equal... Seriously, SK, who ever said all things are equal? They are not. However, it is a fact that both publics and privates have advantages the other does not. And honest conversation can be had here, but I've found it is often you who veers it off into the absurd. My first post in this thread was that I would abstain from participating, but once again I got sucked in and accused of saying things I never said. Shame on me for that, maybe this time I learned my lesson. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 31, 2022 15:54:22 GMT -8
Seriously, nice try having an honest conversation with all this but I still fall of my high chair when some here try and make an argument that all things are equal... They are not. However, it is a fact that both publics and privates have advantages the other does not. And honest conversation can be had here, but I've found it is often you who veers it off into the absurd. My first post in this thread was that I would abstain from participating, but once again I got sucked in and accused of saying things I never said. Shame on me for that, maybe this time I learned my lesson. Well it seems each season you try and run down certain public school(s) rosters and point to the one kid whom may have moved on a roster and claim you, they all do it, that says "all things equal" or at least some defense of it. Look we all know this, we are smart guys, "LIFE IS NOT FAIR" and it was never truly intended to be. As far as the present state of HSF I have stated many time, I may not be in favor of the direction it has gone, but I have conceded that time has moved us to new pastures and even if I dont like the rules or ways, if the rules and ways are followed I'll live with it. Also to reiterate, and if you really look back I rarely am here directly bashing Mater Dei the school, but the entire ways and means of the present state. In fact I go to MD games when I can, I've even taken "Dad Shots" wink wink. I appreciate the talent, I respect the school probably more than you think, I am actually pro private, charter home school for the most part. As long as "Like" teams or programs play each other, it's all good. That makes for exciting football or sport. And thats what it should be about. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Oct 31, 2022 17:34:35 GMT -8
As far as I can see the biggest advantage of private schools is the environment and autonomy. Private schools can enforce more discipline. It’s easier to toss kids who are troublemakers. They can teach ethics/morality however they want. They don’t have to bend to the prevailing avant-garde academic fads that flow from state or local entities. The ability to ignore some of the the over the top Covid mandates is a good example of the advantage of this autonomy. Things just seem to work better when you can control things locally as opposed to top down management.
On the average I think public schools have superior facilities. A few of the high schools in LA and Orange County are the exception to the rule. Most private schools are struggling financially and can’t provide the physical plant that the average public school can.
Athletics are a peripheral issue. In the past when everyone more or less played by the rules things were fairly equal. Public schools tend to be larger and had more kids to draw from, but private school kids tend to come from more disciplined and perhaps more achievement oriented families. Things tended to even out. Currently HS athletics in some corners are such a cluster that it’s not much fun to follow anymore. There will alway be pros and cons to each sector..………Luca
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Oct 31, 2022 17:35:45 GMT -8
Jesus, I still double post.
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billb
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Post by billb on Oct 31, 2022 17:49:45 GMT -8
Jesus, I still double post. I didn't realize it until I read your second post for the third time.  You can delete your post with a drop down on the right. I agree with your point. Private schools will likely provide a better education. Charter schools are good too. IMO. As per the point of private schools offering sports scholarships: I don't know what can be done, or if anything should be done. I think Credo mentioned Catholic schools bringing in non-Catholics to play: I guess that would be up to the school. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2022 18:00:04 GMT -8
At Los Al, you get a co-ed education at a school in a pretty decent area. As for football, you get a coaching staff that works their collective asses off to prepare for each game, a few alternate jersey combinations, and a lot of exposure to college scouts. But many private schools offer those things as well, so that is not a generic advantage offered by public schools, right? Here are the primary differences as I see them: (1) Public schools have to accept every Tom, Dick and Harry who lives in their enrollment boundaries, good or bad. Privates don't (2) Private schools can kick out the troublemakers. Publics can't. (3) Private schools have no enrollment boundaries. Publics do. (4) Public schools don't charge tuition. Privates do. I forgot maybe the most important one: (5) Private schools aren't compelled to spend one second of teaching time indoctrinating kids in Critical Race Theory or Tranny Appreciation. Publics have to abide by the public whim. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 31, 2022 19:06:14 GMT -8
Jesus, I still double post. It's part of the site algorithm I set up... Double post only the exceptional ones. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 1, 2022 15:45:30 GMT -8
Jesus, I still double post. If true, I would then have 12,064 posts to date...  |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2022 9:48:06 GMT -8
Athletics are a peripheral issue. In the past when everyone more or less played by the rules things were fairly equal. Public schools tend to be larger and had more kids to draw from, but private school kids tend to come from more disciplined and perhaps more achievement oriented families. Things tended to even out. Currently HS athletics in some corners are such a cluster that it’s not much fun to follow anymore. There will alway be pros and cons to each sector..………Luca This is where I'd like to focus the discussion in hopes of finding some agreement as to the causes and solutions. I'm a big Thomas Sowell guy (yeah SK80...I'm big, so let's not go there), so I believe all activity, especially those with economic implications, is a function of incentives. Without passing judgment on whether or not it's a good thing, I believe the rising cost of college education, rising costs of private school operation, and the amount of $$ available at the NFL level are primary drivers behind parents, players and high schools doing things differently than the past. It seems to me there would need to be some school driven incentives to drive enrollment at the various private schools that public schools aren't faced with at an individual school level. Without them, why would anyone choose to spend tens of thousands to attend these schools? In fact, if they did NOT compete like any other business, they would be faced with closing their doors. I think each of these schools competes at different activities in different ways. Clearly, football is the biggest revenue driver, so it makes sense to have that as one of your chosen areas to focus the competition. Public schools without such a pressing revenue driver often choose different areas. For example, if you're a stud volleyball player, you might want to consider Newport Harbor...water polo, CDM, and so forth. |
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You can delete your post with a drop down on the right. I agree with your point. Private schools will likely provide a better education. Charter schools are good too. IMO. 