davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on May 6, 2019 15:24:50 GMT -8
No, not in Washington DC. Sigh i came across an interesting article from NASA expounding on their search in the universe for intelligent life. The article starts with a quote from William Borucki, principal investigator for NASA's Kepler mission, but there are hundreds of billions of bodies in the Milky Way, alone. The article goes on to say, my own not-yet-scientific thoughts on the topic: - I find the possibility fascinating;
- I see nothing in the Bible that denies or forbids the possibility (assuming the Biblical account is true);
- If three inert gasses just happened to combine and got just the right charge of energy to create that first DNA is true,it would be more understandable that we are the only ones out here since that process happening even once is almost inconceivably improbable...
So what are your thoughts or fantasies about this?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 6, 2019 15:35:38 GMT -8
Honest to God, Dave, when I saw the title of this thread I though it was going to be another one about the Democratic party.
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Luca
Master Statesman
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Post by Luca on May 6, 2019 16:47:02 GMT -8
1). Personally I think it likely that there is life elsewhere in this universe, and in other ones if in fact we inhabit a multiverse. Humans have always had an egocentric view of the universe. We thought that it was created for our benefit, that the earth was the center of the solar system (and by extension the universe), and that the earth was a totally unique entity not present elsewhere in the universe. All of the above is false.
We also used to think that every light in the sky was a star when in fact they were almost entirely galaxies, each with millions of stars and God knows how many planets each. And there are billions and perhaps trillions of galaxies. What is the likelihood that only earth has life on it and we are the only intelligent beings?
2). The origin of life from inorganic material seems ludicrously unlikely. It’s so unlikely that I suspect that there is some unrecognized natural force that drives it in that direction. There is so much in the universe that we do not understand and I suspect there are several types of natural forces and laws that we have not begun to grasp. Is there some mysterious natural force that increases the likelihood of inorganic material combining into self replicating units? And how do it know?
It is only recently that we have understood that time is a dimension, that space expands and contracts, and that there are probably more than four dimension. We can theorize that they exist but we haven’t the slightest clue what they would look like. We exist amidst Donald Rumsfeld’s "unknown unknowns."
So, yeah, I think life elsewhere is probable and - even though the spontaneous onset of life is impossibly unlikely - since it happened once it probably has happened again and again.......................Luca
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on May 6, 2019 16:56:14 GMT -8
Honest to God, Dave, when I saw the title of this thread I though it was going to be another one about the Democratic party. Honest to God, Dave, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be another about AOC.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on May 6, 2019 20:52:17 GMT -8
Call me dogmatically skeptical on this issue. I firmly believe we are alone in the universe. Despite billions of dollars and decades of searching, no evidence of intelligent life has ever been found, and the requirements for life to even exist are so astronomically high that it seems to rule out other Earth-like planets that could support intelligent life.
And there's some serious theological problems with this as well, not the least of which include original sin, the singular event of the Incarnation, and Christ's unique role as the one mediator of redemption and salvation.
God created the universe for us and man is made in His image. That's all.
If there is evidence to the contrary, it has not been provided.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 6, 2019 21:29:33 GMT -8
Despite billions of dollars and decades of searching, no evidence of intelligent life has ever been found... Put into proper perspective, those billions of dollars and decades of searching have barely examined one grain of sand on an entire beach.
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Post by ProfessorFate on May 6, 2019 22:20:04 GMT -8
I believe that God is omnipotent...more than powerful enough to create/oversee/nurture more than just this one planet. The video below does not represent God Himself, but rather what may be part of God's hierarchy. For those of you unfamiliar with Babylon 5, it was a sci-fi show about a United Nations type space station filled with people from many different planets.
This scene shows how different peoples, saw different things, based upon the way they have understood God and his angels to appear. Kind of reminded me about the Holy Spirit descending upon the apostles who began speaking "in tongues."
Every species on Babylon 5 saw, in ethereal Kosh, what their religion told them of high sentient beings - humans saw Archangel Michael, Minbari saw Voleri, the Centauri saw their version of that, and so on, and so forth. Brilliantly done.
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
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Post by tarmac on May 7, 2019 6:02:03 GMT -8
They will spend hundreds of millions of dollars and maybe find mold or fungus and call it a huge success.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 6:16:24 GMT -8
Honest to God, Dave, when I saw the title of this thread I though it was going to be another one about the Democratic party. Sorry to have misled you, MDDad... However, in all candor, I can’t say I did not consider that possible interpretation. One might even suggest I purposefully worded it that way. 😲
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 6:28:00 GMT -8
1). Personally I think it likely that there is life elsewhere in this universe, and in other ones if in fact we inhabit a multiverse. Humans have always had an egocentric view of the universe. We thought that it was created for our benefit, that the earth was the center of the solar system (and by extension the universe), and that the earth was a totally unique entity not present elsewhere in the universe. All of the above is false. We also used to think that every light in the sky was a star when in fact they were almost entirely galaxies, each with millions of stars and God knows how many planets each. And there are billions and perhaps trillions of galaxies. What is the likelihood that only earth has life on it and we are the only intelligent beings? 2). The origin of life from inorganic material seems ludicrously unlikely. It’s so unlikely that I suspect that there is some unrecognized natural force that drives it in that direction. There is so much in the universe that we do not understand and I suspect there are several types of natural forces and laws that we have not begun to grasp. Is there some mysterious natural force that increases the likelihood of inorganic material combining into self replicating units? And how do it know? It is only recently that we have understood that time is a dimension, that space expands and contracts, and that there are probably more than four dimension. We can theorize that they exist but we haven’t the slightest clue what they would look like. We exist amidst Donald Rumsfeld’s "unknown unknowns." So, yeah, I think life elsewhere is probable and - even though the spontaneous onset of life is impossibly unlikely - since it happened once it probably has happened again and again.......................Luca This morning, I happened across this video from the “What if” series, “What if We Discovered Alien Life?” and it does seem to address (or maybe “posit” is a better term) some of the same questions you raise. As most of their videos are, it is interesting speculation, but they do seem to arrive at different conclusions than you reach, using similar reasoning to yours:
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 6:42:59 GMT -8
Call me dogmatically skeptical on this issue. I firmly believe we are alone in the universe. Despite billions of dollars and decades of searching, no evidence of intelligent life has ever been found, and the requirements for life to even exist are so astronomically high that it seems to rule out other Earth-like planets that could support intelligent life. And there's some serious theological problems with this as well, not the least of which include original sin, the singular event of the Incarnation, and Christ's unique role as the one mediator of redemption and salvation. God created the universe for us and man is made in His image. That's all. If there is evidence to the contrary, it has not been provided. I’m open to the possibility. First, as the Professor said, God is way capable of creating and sustaining other inhabited planets and, if we accept His creation of us was the perfection of which only He is capable, I expect “they” will be very similar, if not identical to us. i do agree with your final statement, though: Such evidence has not been provided insofar as I can determine... so why has it not? My feeble brain can only figure a couple of reasons: - The Bible and all our research into origins and existence is meant for us and such evidence is irrelevant; or
- There is no other life in the universe; or
- God was purposeful in excluding such evidence and doesn’t want us “interfering” in other creations, or even finding them.
Like I said, that is my own thinking and I certainly lay no claim to speak for God.
but...
IF THERE IS other intelligent life, I don’t have those same “serious theological problems” you suggest. In my theological opinion, God knew we would blow it. Adam and Eve (whether anecdote or actual) did not surprise God when they ate the apple. Jesus’ substitutionary death on the cross was part of His plan all along. The Old Covenant and, then, the New Covenant were always God’s plan. If this is true, then I would expect all creations of God would be expected to go through the same kinds of events, if not the exact events our creation went through.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 6:53:09 GMT -8
... 2). The origin of life from inorganic material seems ludicrously unlikely. It’s so unlikely that I suspect that there is some unrecognized natural force that drives it in that direction. There is so much in the universe that we do not understand and I suspect there are several types of natural forces and laws that we have not begun to grasp. Is there some mysterious natural force that increases the likelihood of inorganic material combining into self replicating units? And how do it know? ... I apologize for the redux, but just noticed that bolded question. some years ago, I read a book that, honestly, I had some difficulty understanding but you might better understand with your science and medical background. the book is Signature in the Cell, by Stephen C Meyer. He has also written several articles on this topic as well which you will find at that link (bolded). Meyer has produced several video series, at least one of which is on that book.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 7, 2019 7:52:34 GMT -8
They will spend hundreds of millions of dollars and maybe find mold or fungus and call it a huge success. Mathematically, if we ever find mold or fungus on another planet within our limited view, it all but guarantees there is more advanced life on other planets. The sheer number of galaxies, stars and planets makes it almost inconceivable that there wouldn't be. And Dave, perhaps the reason we have found no evidence is because in relation to the size of the universe, we haven't seen past the end of our nose. If you look only in your closet and don't find an elephant, it doesn't mean elephants don't exist.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 8:07:18 GMT -8
They will spend hundreds of millions of dollars and maybe find mold or fungus and call it a huge success. Mathematically, if we ever find mold or fungus on another planet within our limited view, it all but guarantees there is more advanced life on other planets. The sheer number of galaxies, stars and planets makes it almost inconceivable that there wouldn't be. And Dave, perhaps the reason we have found no evidence is because in relation to the size of the universe, we haven't seen past the end of our nose. If you look only in your closet and don't find an elephant, it doesn't mean elephants don't exist. Understood, and I agree: further, as I stated above to Credo, there could be other, less perceivable reasons we have not found, possibly WILL not ever find intelligent life elsewhere.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on May 7, 2019 8:37:03 GMT -8
further, as I stated above to Credo, there could be other, less perceivable reasons we have not found, possibly WILL not ever find intelligent life elsewhere. Modern humans (i.e. homo sapiens) have been around for only 0.004% of the life of the universe. If other intelligent life exists, there's a 99.996% chance it's been around and evolved for longer than us. So I think it's more likely that if intelligent life exists elsewhere, it will find us.
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