Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on May 7, 2019 12:26:42 GMT -8
"How do it know?" is actually the punch line to an old joke. A group of guys with double digit IQ's are trying to figure out what’s the best intervention of all time. One of them points out that it has to be the thermos bottle because it keeps cold things cold and hot things hot, and wonders "How do it know?"
I don’t think you can say that if other intelligent life exists that there is a 99+ percent chance it has been around for longer than humans. It takes an enormously time for simple living structures to evolve into intelligent life, and there is no way the process could have been completed in the early universe. It is thought that life may have started on earth 3,700,000,000 years ago and intelligent life as we define it probably originated somewhat more than 100,000 years ago. While there is a good chance that intelligent life has been around longer than we have, it’s probably not that high a likelihood that any given intelligent civilization would predate us. I have no idea what the figure should be.
But given that there is a good chance that intelligent life has been around much longer than humans, you would assume that those civilizations would have been hunting all over the universe for us for quite a long time already. I forget what famous astronomer used that piece of information to speculate that there is not any other intelligent life because "If there is intelligent life out there, where the hell is everybody?"…………………………………………….Luca
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on May 7, 2019 13:14:45 GMT -8
On the other hand, life more intelligent than our own could have swung by earth, taken a look at what we do to each other, and decided "the hell with this joint". If you were a more highly evolved life form and you saw some of Wabash's posts, would you make contact?
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Post by ProfessorFate on May 7, 2019 13:18:30 GMT -8
In that event, they might have decided to exterminate us.
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on May 7, 2019 14:51:14 GMT -8
Maybe they'd just stick around for the comic relief.
Actually, maybe they colluded with the Russians to throw the 2016 election just to piss him off and see his reaction..............................Luca
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 16:28:15 GMT -8
further, as I stated above to Credo, there could be other, less perceivable reasons we have not found, possibly WILL not ever find intelligent life elsewhere. Modern humans (i.e. homo sapiens) have been around for only 0.004% of the life of the universe. If other intelligent life exists, there's a 99.996% chance it's been around and evolved for longer than us. So I think it's more likely that if intelligent life exists elsewhere, it will find us. I don’t have that probability prowess you have, so if your posit is accurate, AND we’ve been around for hundreds of millions of years or so, it is more likely they already have. since we are only speculating here, it is possible - There IS intelligent life elsewhere and they are more advanced,
- They look exactly like we look, but possibly further along the evolutionary scale, and
- They have been here, living amongst us for some time
To paraphrase Luca, How do WE know?
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by MDDad on May 7, 2019 16:40:44 GMT -8
I suppose their living among us is possible. If so, perhaps the first of them to "come out of the closet" is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. If she's alien, her intellect is so far beyond ours that we just naturally assume she's an idiot.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on May 7, 2019 17:28:26 GMT -8
I suppose their living among us is possible. If so, perhaps the first of them to "come out of the closet" is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. If she's alien, her intellect is so far beyond ours that we just naturally assume she's an idiot. Well, yes, I suppose. However, if their plan is to use her as a pilot program to dumb us down to eventually take us over, I’m not sure how thoroughly that plan was thought through, calling into question their allegedly superior intellect... |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on May 7, 2019 21:23:04 GMT -8
... If you look only in your closet and don't find an elephant, it doesn't mean elephants don't exist. Speaking of Elephants & closets full of clothes; " I once went out hunting & shot an elephant in my pajamas. How the elephant got in my pajamas, I'll never know" - Groucho Marx |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on May 7, 2019 22:16:32 GMT -8
Despite billions of dollars and decades of searching, no evidence of intelligent life has ever been found... Put into proper perspective, those billions of dollars and decades of searching have barely examined one grain of sand on an entire beach. And still....nothing. To answer the point ably raised by the Professor, as a Catholic and teacher of theology I--of course--can place no limits on God. I simply try to adhere to his Word. I guess the question I would pose to those more optimistic than myself on the possibility of alien life is this: what (other than the sheer vastness of universe) makes you think there could be--or should be--other intelligent life out there?
How did such life happen? Creation by God? Spontaneous generation (abiogenesis)? Evolution? If one affirms that God directly created man and woman in His image (as Christian belief has always held), it doesn't seem likely that He would do the same somewhere else. Would such alien life have souls? Would God have provided another revelation of Himself to such creatures? Again, it's always possible, but to my mind there seems to be a "fittingness" to humanity as the sole recipient of the divine gifts of intellect, free will, and an immortal soul. Fascinating topic nonetheless. When I have a little more time, I'm going to research this more. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on May 8, 2019 0:13:44 GMT -8
The part that I don't have an answer for, is would God have to sacrifice his Son over and over if he created multiple planets with intelligent life on them?
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on May 8, 2019 5:30:05 GMT -8
Put into proper perspective, those billions of dollars and decades of searching have barely examined one grain of sand on an entire beach. And still....nothing. To answer the point ably raised by the Professor, as a Catholic and teacher of theology I--of course--can place no limits on God. I simply try to adhere to his Word. I guess the question I would pose to those more optimistic than myself on the possibility of alien life is this: what (other than the sheer vastness of universe) makes you think there could be--or should be--other intelligent life out there?
How did such life happen? Creation by God? Spontaneous generation (abiogenesis)? Evolution? If one affirms that God directly created man and woman in His image (as Christian belief has always held), it doesn't seem likely that He would do the same somewhere else. Would such alien life have souls? Would God have provided another revelation of Himself to such creatures? Again, it's always possible, but to my mind there seems to be a "fittingness" to humanity as the sole recipient of the divine gifts of intellect, free will, and an immortal soul. Fascinating topic nonetheless. When I have a little more time, I'm going to research this more. You...we ... can adhere to the Word and still believe it is possible. There is plenty in our own world that we know exists but that is not mentioned in Scripture. my theological education shows me the Bible was written to Man, from God and includes only those concepts necessary for man to build a relationship with Him. Since other intelligent life in the universe (or the purpose of an appendix, or whether Jesus was born in 1 AD OR 3 BC, ETC) has nothing to do with man building a relationship with God, so there would be no need to include it. Don't get me wrong, this thread only wonders at the possibility, and as many have already said, so far, very little effort (in contrast with the vastness of the universe) and even less evidence (as in, none)... but it is nevertheless fascinating to consider. |
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Bick
Administrator 
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Post by Bick on May 8, 2019 6:08:57 GMT -8
In that event, they might have decided to exterminate us. That's right. "To Serve Man" was a cook book. |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
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Post by RSM789 on May 8, 2019 6:10:06 GMT -8
Put into proper perspective, those billions of dollars and decades of searching have barely examined one grain of sand on an entire beach. If one affirms that God directly created man and woman in His image (as Christian belief has always held), it doesn't seem likely that He would do the same somewhere else... Out of curiousity, why? I know having a child isn't the same as God creating man & woman, but when most folks have a child, they later have more. Having additional children or repeating the process of creating mankind in different galaxies doesn't lessen the value of the first one (or of any of them). I think God is smart, so it would make sense he would hedge his bet and fire off a few Adams & Eves. From his standpoint, it would be interesting to see the differences between them as time advanced. Who knows, maybe we were the only one that lasted this long... |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on May 8, 2019 6:30:50 GMT -8
It seems the Church has grappled with this subject for some time now. This below foots with my own sense that it would be incredibly arrogant to assume we're the only life in the universe... ...Christians do not have to renounce their faith in God just because of new unexpected information of a religious nature regarding extraterrestrial civilizations,” said Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Vatican astronomer and theologian. Once believers will have verified that these alien civilizations come from another planet, he said. They will have to conduct a “rereading of the Gospel in light of the new data.” In sum, most of these observers believe the Catholic faith is strong enough to withstand the test of extraterrestrial life. Be it in the Jazz scene in Star Wars or Captain Kirk’s deck, be it tall blue Avatars or helping E.T. “phone home,” there will always be “space” for Catholicism. cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/23/catholicism-handle-discovery-extraterrestrial-life/ |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on May 8, 2019 7:46:08 GMT -8
It seems the Church has grappled with this subject for some time now. This below foots with my own sense that it would be incredibly arrogant to assume we're the only life in the universe... ...Christians do not have to renounce their faith in God just because of new unexpected information of a religious nature regarding extraterrestrial civilizations,” said Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, Vatican astronomer and theologian. Once believers will have verified that these alien civilizations come from another planet, he said. They will have to conduct a “rereading of the Gospel in light of the new data.” In sum, most of these observers believe the Catholic faith is strong enough to withstand the test of extraterrestrial life. Be it in the Jazz scene in Star Wars or Captain Kirk’s deck, be it tall blue Avatars or helping E.T. “phone home,” there will always be “space” for Catholicism. cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/23/catholicism-handle-discovery-extraterrestrial-life/From my perspective, no “re-reading” will be necessary. The Bible is silent on the topic and I can only suppose it is silent because it doesn’t involve us OR bring us closer to God. |
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