Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 14, 2019 21:34:17 GMT -8
MDDad has literally spent pages upon pages over the years addressing this transfer business. While I'm pretty sure at least some of the accusations had some truth to them, the whole thing reeked of McCarthyism. He was basically called a liar when responding to some of the accusations by many of those on TOB.
Not sure I blame his reluctance to get into it again.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jul 14, 2019 21:46:32 GMT -8
I don't think we need to get into it here again actually. Surely there were false accusations made and surely there were moves and efforts made by some of the privates and parochial to create what we have today, UBER sports programs via recruiting and more so now than ever transferring. I never understood why this was even an issue, I have always stated "I don't like it" but it is what it is and for now here to stay. Deep down inside we all know what it is.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 14, 2019 21:57:24 GMT -8
Whether or not we want to discuss it here, it's still an issue. CIF latest iteration of competitive equity vis a vis division alignment shows they're still trying to figure it out.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 15, 2019 19:38:58 GMT -8
MDDad has literally spent pages upon pages over the years addressing this transfer business. While I'm pretty sure at least some of the accusations had some truth to them, the whole thing reeked of McCarthyism. He was basically called a liar when responding to some of the accusations by many of those on TOB. Not sure I blame his reluctance to get into it again. MDDad & I give each other a hard time about Mater Dei & Servite, but we have mutual respect. There are things we disagree about, but I don't believe we have ever had a conversation that has devolved into insults that one or the other has taken personal. Then again, with his Mater Dei ties, maybe he just has a problem understanding when he has been insulted...  |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 15, 2019 19:55:10 GMT -8
True. Haven't seen anything close to what I used to see.
Be interesting to have a real conversation about it over here. Was just saying I get the reluctance.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 15, 2019 21:47:26 GMT -8
MDDad has literally spent pages upon pages over the years addressing this transfer business. While I'm pretty sure at least some of the accusations had some truth to them, the whole thing reeked of McCarthyism. He was basically called a liar when responding to some of the accusations by many of those on TOB. Not sure I blame his reluctance to get into it again. This topic is one we went round and round on last year at TOB. It's frustrating because there seems to be no practical solutions. Other than self-regulation (i.e., Trinity League schools putting voluntary limits on themselves league-wide) or CIF regulation (lacking in resources and will to do so), there seems to be no answers. The genealogy of the monster that's been created can be disputed to no end, but I tend to lay the heaviest responsibility on Jason Negro. He's taken the transfer and recruiting business to obscene levels; Mater Dei has responded and now everyone else at the highest level feels they need to do the same to avoid irrelevance. IMHO, the last "normal" CIF champion--that played with kids who weren't exponentially bigger and faster than kids of the previous 20 years--was the 2012 Long Beach Poly team. Every CIF champion since then has essentially been an all-star collection. I give Corona Centennial some credit for staying competitive with the privates with perhaps the best-coached teams of recent years. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 16, 2019 8:15:54 GMT -8
Credo, I would just add two comments. For two decades, Long Beach Poly played with kids who were exponentially bigger and faster than the rest of the Southern Section teams. It was a result of an open enrollment policy by the Long Beach Unified School District which enabled the school to enroll all the football talent in a genetic goldmine, plus the ability to also attract kids from the Inland Empire. When the LBUSD eliminated open enrollment, Poly came back to earth.
And second, for ten or 15 years, Corona Centennial played with 20 to 25 transfers on its roster every year, which made them the all-star team of the Inland Empire. Now that some of those kids who in the past would have gone to Centennial are instead opting for Bosco or Mater Dei, Centennial has also come back to earth a little bit.
I'll say this in every post about this subject from now on: THE BEST PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY ON THE BEST TEAMS, WITH THE BEST COACHING, AND AGAINST THE BEST COMPETITION. That's what recruits transfers.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 16, 2019 8:46:43 GMT -8
Duly noted. I defer to your knowledge here, which exceeds my own humble observations.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 16, 2019 9:11:45 GMT -8
I agree wholeheartedly with your bold faced comments MDD.
The rub is when xfers are having a big impact on the outcomes of the playoffs. I believe that is the biggest complaint, and I think it's a legitimate one.
One simple rule change would serve as a huge deterrent to teams benefiting by xfers in the playoffs... make xfers ineligible for playoffs in the year they transfer.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jul 16, 2019 9:48:39 GMT -8
Credo, I would just add two comments. For two decades, Long Beach Poly played with kids who were exponentially bigger and faster than the rest of the Southern Section teams. It was a result of an open enrollment policy by the Long Beach Unified School District which enabled the school to enroll all the football talent in a genetic goldmine, plus the ability to also attract kids from the Inland Empire. When the LBUSD eliminated open enrollment, Poly came back to earth. And second, for ten or 15 years, Corona Centennial played with 20 to 25 transfers on its roster every year, which made them the all-star team of the Inland Empire. Now that some of those kids who in the past would have gone to Centennial are instead opting for Bosco or Mater Dei, Centennial has also come back to earth a little bit. I'll say this in every post about this subject from now on: THE BEST PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY ON THE BEST TEAMS, WITH THE BEST COACHING, AND AGAINST THE BEST COMPETITION. That's what recruits transfers. So basically everything we have been saying about MD since then...! OK understood! Right! Advantage "open enrollment", "transfers" and excellent coaching, facilities and backing provided by yours truly... "the Benjamin"! |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 16, 2019 10:19:29 GMT -8
Sorry, SK, I don't understand your post.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 16, 2019 11:02:06 GMT -8
I didn't take the statement from MDDad as a justification, but merely an explanation of the current state of affairs at the elite level. And to be fair, none of us here are the decision makers in this system, just bystanders trying to make sense of it all.
At least half the responsibility for the transfer mess lies with the parents of these kids, who aren't teaching their sons any good lessons by shopping them around in pursuit of greater individual glory. (And here I refer almost exclusively to those kids who are already set with multiple scholarship offers and are now "ring-shopping.") Logan Loya is this year's best example.
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 16, 2019 11:16:13 GMT -8
Honestly, Credo, if anyone thinks 50% of the responsibility lies with the parents, they're about 45% too low.
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Post by kupprunneth on Jul 16, 2019 13:11:36 GMT -8
yeah, its definitely not 50% parents doing.
Its almost all on the kids.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Jul 16, 2019 17:45:41 GMT -8
This is a tired topic and I don’t want to review all the history of the last 20 years that has led to the widespread conclusion as to where this fornicating mess all started and who is responsible.
I am reminded of a post approximately 10 years ago when there was widespread unhappiness with Mission Viejo for all of their transfers and recruiting. One of the MV partisans insisted that the school wasn’t actively recruiting players, but one of our own current board members responded with the analogy of the Don Corleone family. They engaged in criminal activity for several years until they built up enough of an established empire such that they did not have to rely on criminal activity any longer. The analogy is as true today as it was then.
It is also true that Bosco’s Jason Negro took the CIF violations to another level starting in 2010, but the process had been gaining momentum well before that in Orange County. Even so, there was no necessity to copy his model down here in OC, but people did and we know where it started. It started the same place where the basketball problems started and it’s not due to chance that Mater Dei has not had a serious contender in basketball for the last two plus decades nor in football over the last several years.
As for the self evident “THE BEST PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY ON THE BEST TEAMS, WITH THE BEST COACHING, AND AGAINST THE BEST COMPETITION. That's what recruits transfers", that is entirely true. That has always been true, but it has only been since certain programs have broadcast and made it clear they are in the market to assemble - however possible - the best players to build the best teams that the parity in parochial HS sports has disappeared, to the detriment of everyone else.
It didn’t have to be this way. Parochial schools did not have to cave in and abandon principles. But they have and now the integrity of parochial FB is gone with the wind......................Luca
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