Luca
Master Statesman
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Post by Luca on Jul 12, 2019 9:15:17 GMT -8
I have to observe, Bick, that for HSFB purists like myself D1 HSFB has been dead for some time now. It’s the era of “High School Affiliated Club Football.”
HSACFB. I like that acronym. I think I’ll use it from now on...................Luca
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 12, 2019 10:19:32 GMT -8
Luca - like many things, we seem to be bombarded with negative aspects of transfers and recruiting as though it were the rule v the exception. I don't particularly like, especially when our kids go somewhere else. But it should somewhat balance at some point.
I think boards like this and the one we came from do a good job of capturing the mostly positive energy from the posters that comes with a more active involvement with a program.
But, as the saying goes... credis qoud habes, et habes.
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Jul 12, 2019 14:28:30 GMT -8
We all bring a different perspective and knowledge of the parochial high school game to this board, Bick. I suspect mine goes back further than most, over 50 years. My father, my older brother, my kids and I all played. I briefly coached and have treated players since the '80s. I’ve followed the game closely for decades, even when I was in school back east. Christ, I flew in from the East Coast to watch Loyola’s playoff championship game in 1975 (and I still fume that the goddamn flight was delayed).
Most don’t understand what has been lost in the last few years. They don’t understand what the parochial game did for the kids and the high schools and even the parents. The decades long rivalries, the traditions, the lifetime friendships, the ebb and flow of the programs (both public and private), etc. How beneficial it was for an average high school "athlete" to be able through sustained effort make himself a valuable contributor to a team, while in the process learning what determination and tradition and loyalty and community striving are all about. Things that that average high school kid could carry into adulthood. That was the value of the game, what it did for kids who otherwise would likely not have learned those arduous, priceless lessons.
As obsessive a fan as I have been of parochial football, I admit that a few parochials – we all know who – have totally f’d up the game for everyone else. Their programs are now a part of the school business plan, an advertising tool, a destination for prima donna administrators, coaches and snowplow parents. Kids are still just kids and they follow the lead. And now there is no parochial competition. There is a shocking lack of loyalty, community, and integrity. The other kids can look around and reasonably ask themselves “What is the fornicating point? No matter how hard we work, a boat load of recruits or transfers from East San Elsewhere are going to reload for the club teams and bury our asses again next year.” There is no light or hope for success at the end of the tunnel for the vast majority of these kids. Why did it have to be this way?
I know I’m a broken record. I don’t blame you for diplomatically asking me to shut my f’n mouth. But I’m still pissed and will remain pissed. I see the integrity and value that has been lost and I see the tawdry reasons for it as well as the attempts to obfuscate the reality. Every now and then it builds up, like a volcano.
As the saying goes, Ex nihilo nihil fit......................................Luca
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 12, 2019 14:59:04 GMT -8
Hell Luca - I'd never ask you to shut your mouth. F'n or otherwise.
I get the frustration, and was right there with you. I just changed my paradigm, and it's far more enjoyable. Face it, flaws and all, there's not much more pure than HS football. I'll be dammed if I'm going to let much of anything get in the way of my enjoyment of it.
As interesting as it truly was, I'd still going to spend a lot more time talking about 7 v 7 passing league hijinks, than the origins of the universe.
Now... If we're talking about Satan's presence, that might end up captivating a little more than 7v7 😉
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 12, 2019 15:04:49 GMT -8
And by the way, I do see that whole transfer business starting to slow down as kids realize they really don't have to go to parochial school U in order to get seen.
Kids might be seeing the light and staying at the local school. Especially when parochial school X has shown a history of doing what you just said. Might be why a public school ended up with an SEC offered incoming freshman. Just a guess.
Hope so anyway.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by SK80 on Jul 12, 2019 16:11:46 GMT -8
Not just because CDM is my alma mater but it really is as close to hfs that I have known for decades since my youth. At least up to this point CDM really does it the old fashion way.
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Luca
Master Statesman
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Post by Luca on Jul 12, 2019 16:21:40 GMT -8
Pretty much all the public programs do to my knowledge with the exception of Corona Centennial, Mission Viejo and perhaps Narbonne.
It was the parochials that screwed it up for everyone else. I find myself drawn more to the public programs now because they represent true high school football, including CDM. But I can't get myself as attached to them because I don't have the historical ties to any of them like I do the traditional parochial teams that my father and my kids and I played for and against........................Luca
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 12, 2019 17:31:26 GMT -8
You know, I missed the parochial part of your comment. I'm over at Los Al now, and really like the whole vibe a lot. Had a great experience before then at Cypress, and spent some time this post season cheering on Western.
All 3 had a neat sense of spirit
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jul 12, 2019 20:24:15 GMT -8
We all bring a different perspective and knowledge of the parochial high school game to this board, Bick. I suspect mine goes back further than most, over 50 years. My father, my older brother, my kids and I all played. I briefly coached and have treated players since the '80s. I’ve followed the game closely for decades, even when I was in school back east. Christ, I flew in from the East Coast to watch Loyola’s playoff championship game in 1975 (and I still fume that the goddamn flight was delayed). Most don’t understand what has been lost in the last few years. They don’t understand what the parochial game did for the kids and the high schools and even the parents. The decades long rivalries, the traditions, the lifetime friendships, the ebb and flow of the programs (both public and private), etc. How beneficial it was for an average high school "athlete" to be able through sustained effort make himself a valuable contributor to a team, while in the process learning what determination and tradition and loyalty and community striving are all about. Things that that average high school kid could carry into adulthood. That was the value of the game, what it did for kids who otherwise would likely not have learned those arduous, priceless lessons. As obsessive a fan as I have been of parochial football, I admit that a few parochials – we all know who – have totally f’d up the game for everyone else. Their programs are now a part of the school business plan, an advertising tool, a destination for prima donna administrators, coaches and snowplow parents. Kids are still just kids and they follow the lead. And now there is no parochial competition. There is a shocking lack of loyalty, community, and integrity. The other kids can look around and reasonably ask themselves “ What is the fornicating point? No matter how hard we work, a boat load of recruits or transfers from East San Elsewhere are going to reload for the club teams and bury our asses again next year.” There is no light or hope for success at the end of the tunnel for the vast majority of these kids. Why did it have to be this way? I know I’m a broken record. I don’t blame you for diplomatically asking me to shut my f’n mouth. But I’m still pissed and will remain pissed. I see the integrity and value that has been lost and I see the tawdry reasons for it as well as the attempts to obfuscate the reality. Every now and then it builds up, like a volcano. As the saying goes, Ex nihilo nihil fit......................................Luca Just "liking" this post isn't enough. Yet, I can't really add to it, because it's perfect. Post of the Year. I'll just say Amen, Amen, Amen!
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 12, 2019 21:45:48 GMT -8
In addition to what Luca said, it has changed the sense of pride for the other kids at each parochial schools. 30 years ago, Catholic schools were typically undersized teams with less players, but were able to compete because of discipline & team unity. As a non-football player, that made me proud of the school. I can't imagine now that students are proud because their administration was able to wrangle more studs from miles away than the other schools.
I have said it a dozen of times and MDDad completely disagrees with me, but I believe the process began following Servite's back to back CIF titles in the 82 & 83 seasons (classes of 83 & 84). The first team featured Steve Buerlein at QB, the second had Doug Butler. The rest of those teams consisted of kids who went to parochial grade schools and going to Servite, Mater Dei or St Paul was the normal thing. They weren't recruited players, it was an organic coming together of some special kids. I contend that Mater Dei was so infuriated that Servite was getting so much attention for a couple of years of football success, they began the process of becoming a sports academy with a Catholic affiliation. Unfortunately, over the following 2 decades, every other parochial high school has followed them down that sewer hole, some more obviously than others.
The blatant recruitment over the past 30 years has diminished the sports accomplishments of those same schools prior to the sports academy era.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 12, 2019 22:16:12 GMT -8
Assuming the issue here is blatant recruitment (and I agree this is flat out wrong), what % of the kids xfering would you estimate would be considered so? Would it be safe to stipulate you don't have a problem with kids wanting to xfer out of their own volition because a certain program had developed a reputation for having the best program?
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Jul 12, 2019 22:20:24 GMT -8
No.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jul 12, 2019 22:49:44 GMT -8
In addition to what Luca said, it has changed the sense of pride for the other kids at each parochial schools. 30 years ago, Catholic schools were typically undersized teams with less players, but were able to compete because of discipline & team unity. As a non-football player, that made me proud of the school. I can't imagine now that students are proud because their administration was able to wrangle more studs from miles away than the other schools. I have said it a dozen of times and MDDad completely disagrees with me, but I believe the process began following Servite's back to back CIF titles in the 82 & 83 seasons (classes of 83 & 84). The first team featured Steve Buerlein at QB, the second had Doug Butler. The rest of those teams consisted of kids who went to parochial grade schools and going to Servite, Mater Dei or St Paul was the normal thing. They weren't recruited players, it was an organic coming together of some special kids. I contend that Mater Dei was so infuriated that Servite was getting so much attention for a couple of years of football success, they began the process of becoming a sports academy with a Catholic affiliation. Unfortunately, over the following 2 decades, every other parochial high school has followed them down that sewer hole, some more obviously than others. The blatant recruitment over the past 30 years has diminished the sports accomplishments of those same schools prior to the sports academy era. One slight correction...Doug Butler preceded Beuerlein, and was the QB that upset Edison in '81 on the way to the semifinals. The QB that followed Beuerlein was Eric Buechele, who won the CIF Title as a junior in '83.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Jul 13, 2019 5:22:45 GMT -8
I see we have a Trinity thread... why am I feeling a Non-Trinity thread.... heck we started out as the Non-Liberal Forum!
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 13, 2019 5:53:28 GMT -8
Same issue at Serra I think. Haven't heard much of this from Loyola or Notre Dame
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